Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I would submit that anytime an owner of an enterprise is creating an income for themselves or other people, and those other people are now employees, then it's clearly a company. I'd say it's Mike's living room in theory, but actually someone's else apartment he's renting.
I base this on experience and input from observations that when a private owner starts accepting money from outside sources, the owner risks giving up control of his company for the right to use that money. Be it funding, loans, whatever. The same with going public. That's why there are so many scams as those ceo's cook up creative reasons to protect their stock and money from shareholders and funders.
Mike was a private company. Was he accepting loans and such to keep host payments or whatever? Using any advertising company also gives up a little control of your 'baby'. You can have a business, and keep it homey too, but that almost never lasts a long time. Granted it's a public forum that was his business, but still a business with a certain structure needed to survive.

Wov needs to commit to more clearly defined rules and a forum site can't have admin arguing with members and also clearly playing favorites.
What Mike does is his business, what admin does is also his or was business and it reflects on the overall health of a web site.

And I don't believe off topic boards define a entire site, only to the minority of people who even follow those boards.

What I've always wondered is, why would any admin or well known wov person even consider coming to a different website's off topic board to discuss anything. I'll stick with damage control.
gl.

 

It doesnt matter if message board traffic brings in 1 dollar or a million dollars. Manboy gets none of it so he has no incentive to maximize profits.
So if its simply a question of whether a man will disregard a written threat and let bygones be bygones...thats up to him. Its a personal and not a business decision....since manboy has no business decisions to make. His actions dictate that he doesnt care about the business side.
If he did he wouldnt have banned KJ in the first place.
If he was ever interested in appealing togaining customers...he would never have publicly used the phrase "dont let the door hit you" to others.
If he wanted more women customers, he would never disrespect his wife many times portraying her as a ball and chain.
So business growth is not his goal. Face has stated that. So I will go with face on his objective view.
I imagine manboy has gotten alot of support via PM once the written threat was posted here.....and as you can see....once that happened...the turmoil and comments about KJ subsided.....you dont hear a peep since then.
Does manboy want to set the precedent that you can send him a written threat or use a verbal threat.....and your ban would be less than a person who was banned for trolling?
I think the answer is rather obvious.
And before I get the crying.....I realize the threat was not a physical threat....but more of a threat of soiling his reputation every chance he got.

 

Ah, but this isn't a gripe against Wiz. This one lands squarely on MY shoulders.

Mike doesn't read much, he's said it all along dating at least back to '10. And I can confirm he doesn't because I know there are things for which he'll shoot from the hip and not think twice, and I see these things happening with not even a comment from him. He's simply not there.

I, on the other hand, see all of this. I know exactly what RonC's talking about, because the Election thread is one I make a point to visit every day. I know the topic, even the agents in play he's complaining about. I saw it all. And I did nothing.

That's the way I like to work, and I say it often in thread when addressing issues over there. I HATE censoring people, even people I despise. Because there are a few people over there that have completely won me over, and both are people that aren't what would be considered "friendly". One is EvenBob, the other is AZDuffman. Both are ornery, both set in their ways, both as hard headed as any ass I've ever encountered. But both refuse to be rattled, and that's what won me. People insult EB DAILY, and never not once have I ever dinged someone for it. Why? Cuz EB is a man. He doesn't need coddling, protection. He has it within himself to stand by himself, and I respect the hell out of that. It's the exact same for AZD. No matter how low down and dirty you strike at him, he is unflappable. He'll respond to you just as even keel and proper as you'd like, no matter the offense.

I LIKE that. I want to encourage it. And, most importantly, I want to give others the OPPORTUNITY to rise to that standard.

RonC absolutely falls into that category with me. When some... I need a new word other than "cunt" all the time... but you know the type I'm talking about. When one of those types takes a shot at him, I want to do nothing. I want to wait, and I want to watch. I want to see RonC respond to the charge and tear it to pieces, and do so without dropping to the same level. That's "my way". That way, RonC gets to hold his head high knowing he did it all on his own, and the asshat's bullshit post stays for all to see. With hope, the failed attempt to rile will further incite and cause more, and through no interference whatsoever, everyone will get to view the true character of the person in question. THAT'S what I like. Being real. Seeing who people REALLY are, at their core.

That absolutely causes unfairness, no doubt. It's less me modding and more me abusing my power for manipulation. So be it. If you wanna talk maladjusted mods, there's my entry. But I can't help it. I can't bring myself to be a nanny as it's against everything I stand for. I can't rob opportunity, either. So when someone posts something as unnecessary and inflaming as "rounding up all conservatives and eliminating them from Earth", I do nothing. And I expect RonC, who has been previously banned on a too-minor incident, to nonetheless rise to that challenge despite the history of things or the scorecard.

Oh, certainly. By any definition it's a business, whether back then OR now. I was merely pointing out that labeling something a "business" doesn't necessarily carry all the connotations that some are trying to put on it. It doesn't mean you must accept all this or engage in all that. Sure, for max revenue, which is what I would consider the base of most of LarryS' posts, his opinions are spot on. But there's restaurants with dress codes, clubs for specific genders, pubs that cater to a specific class, etc and so forth. WoV falls into that category. It's a niche. A "specialty". It doesn't fit some and some don't fit.

And you may wonder, but I've already given the answer. Several, in fact. First, I like to argue. I've been dying to confront LarryS and hash some things out for literal YEARS now. That's a big reason. The Crimm is here, another big reason. A number of you, most, really, I've come to know through years of posts on GG where I lurked, now I get to chat with you. And sure, I feel compelled to defend where I think defense is warranted. But that's a character trait, or if you like better, a character flaw, not some strange conspiracy. I'm not now, not ever, and never will be "sent" to do others' bidding.

Dunno what else to tell you, nate. I'm here because I enjoy here, nothing more.

 

Oh, no no no. Don't do that, Larry. Not like that.

I said maximizing business is not the goal (and this, of course, is opinion, as I don't have eyes into the man's business). Growth is always a goal, but, and here is my point and my specific opinion, not at the cost of what the site stands for OR how he wants it to be.

Gr8 "did nothing wrong", but he did not abide the God of Math. That's what the site stands for, so he be gone. You "did nothing wrong", but you "came in like a bazooka". That's not how he wants it to be, so you be gone.

Maximizing business, which is what I stated, means to me to be as open, welcoming, and accepting of as many people as possible to, of course, maximize revenue. Due to the observed actions to cull those who did not fit a certain theme, I think it's fair to state that maximizing is not a goal. But that's a far stretch from stating simply "growth is not a goal". All businesses must grow. And I'm sure attracting more who either 1) need a gaming education, or 2) can provide a gaming education, is high on the list of priorities.

 

well the goal is not even close to being met. ...as visits by members are down at least 25 percent from 2 years ago when I was on the board

My post still stands with the words "maximiziing profits "

the behavior of devaluing his wife is not good for MAXIMIZING profits. Telling people "dont let the door hot you in the ass" is not favorable for MAXIMIZING profits.
IT all stands..
the uneven customer service, including the sarcastic remarks that came along with punishment was never good for Maximizing profits.

So if manboy wanted to MAXIMIZE profits he would take KJ back. But I STILL CONTEND that profits are not his mindset now....or before....and member visit numbers agree

 

Larry, believe it or not, I like you. I believe you are not a bad guy so don't prove me wrong. But we so disagree on a few points above, but I'm still here and so are you.

Business owners and managers sometimes have to make the hard decisions to build a business. We can disagree on the exact terms, but there are times you have to ban customers to build business. At times I have had to determine some people just were drunks. Simple as that, I could not build a business with people who drank too many $2.50 beers that were turning people with $50 checks away. Sure it doesn't fit with free forums but I believe it makes the point. Not every customer is a valuable one.

I still believe KJ crossed the tipping point with his "threat". I would have reacted close to the same way. We all are defensive.

I believe Mikes wife and family are off limits. If I'm wrong she has 1.15M reasons to leave (minus legal fees), not a bad option.

 

Face
your explanation of your philosophy is what I would have expected from you(in a good way). I think the majority of wov would agree with that. There are a handful of cry babies that are quick to ask for punishment and I think some mods cater to those handful...to the detriment of the board.
However any business that has some modicum of customer service thrives for consistency. Customers will generally accept management decisions as long as they see consistency. However based on the length of the thread about discussion of the suspension list.....there was not alot of "acceptance"....and that should have been a reason for improvement by management..at least a red flag for discussion.
Getting punished based on who happens to be on duty on a given night is the height of frustration due to inconsistency.
A mod like you giving his philosophy, and a mod like BBB detailing how she worked for a month to nail a sockpupet.....shows the divergence of philosophy.
A common thread that runs through this thread.....is not that there is punishment on wov...but rather that there is inconsistent and therefore unfair punishment...as well as vindictive punishment.
And yes I have stated what you state, that people should be treated as big boys and not like little kids that need to be shielded from anything even slightly insulting or off color.
As long as the admin here keeps sending real insults to a seperate section....this is a place for big boys to hold a discussion. No mommy is going to protect anyone from getting a boo boo.
I never suggested that wov should be like this site....not at all. But I do agree with your big boy philosophy, and giving people the ability to wipe the floor with someone who said something stupid or out of line. THAT is the fun of the boards for people like you and me who can string words together into a cogent well constructed thought.

There is no "positive" for having a diverse set of mods with a diverse philosophy on how to dole out punishment. It not like having a diverse group of people of different nationalities who cook in the school cafeteria, which can be a positive. A diverse doling out of punishment is a disaster to the growth of a business. And that has played out at wov.....at least as per visits by members.

Mike has been referred to as "the boss" by other mods (mostly beofre the sale)....and if he was perceived as "the boss" and he had no problem being refereed to that.....then any critiqueof the board...including uneven punishment by RonC......is a critique of the boss.

Mike has stated that he goes on a suspension spree whenhe is in a bad mood. Its his own words. He offered this info. So he obviously needs the power rush to quell his psyche.

So he is "hands on: in that respect...or was at the time he said that...and at the time BB1 for example was posting/...leaving me out of it.

So its rather hard to critique uneven punishment by mods without shining the light on "the boss" who over-sees this.....

So almost any critique is a critique of mike....someone has to be over-seeing this.

 

Face

I explained it wrong above...even minimally increasing profits..it would be a good idea to take KJ back...so my initial comments sants, repalcing minimally increasing profits....instead of maximizing profits. The actions of manboy were never good for even minimally increasing profits. He treated customers and his wife shabbily on the board..not good for even minimally increasing business

 

I disagree. Having multiple mods with diverse opinions, ideas, methods of handling situations and especially temperaments is the way to go. You want to get away from the notion of one guy calling all the shots, especially one short tempered guy, with the inability to admit when he is wrong. But this only works if the other mods are allowed to engage in discussion, including questioning "the boss". That is what is missing from this scenario.

It was always obvious but has become even more so from Fisk's posts, that this is the flaw with the WoV setup. There apparently have been numerous occasions (not just the situation involving myself), where a number of mods, maybe even all other mods disagreed with Mike's actions and expressed that sentiment. But Mike was and is unwilling to accept any input or questioning of his actions, from them. This raises the question as to why there even are other mods?

Shackleford is a control freak, a dictator. He won't cede power, control or even accept input from anyone. He has a "my way or the highway....don't let the door hit you in the ass" attitude. The appearance that it is anything other than this by allowing other mods is a sham (no offense to Fisk or Mission, who I believe are good guys, mean well and try hard to better the site).

 

they are not off limits as long as he brings them up. Especially when he demeans his wife by presenting her as a nagging ball and chain.
not really an attractant to women customers lurking.

 

LarryS, I don't follow your line of thinking here at all. KJ participating or not participating at WoV will not effect profits of that site one iota. It might improve the quality of the site.

Allowing KJ and other back, including you, who may have been wrongly or questionably banned should be done because it is the right thing to do, and for no other reason. Key word of course is should. Not going to happen with a guy in control....obsessed with control, who can never bring himself to admit he was wrong or might have acted hastily.

 

Mike can run that board how he wants. He can be tyrannical. I dont care. But be up front. Post a warning as people enter. Let us know that if he disagrees, with you you will be asked to leave, banned, or allowed to be ridiculed and insulted. by members. Just be upfront.

None of this tyranical behavior on mondays and thursdays, and humain treatment on fridays and sundays depending who is on duty.

who needs that schizophrenic treatment excpet KJ.

this site is consistently lax as far as policing ............I dont need 3 other mods with their own different theories on how this site should be policed to mix in.That just becomes confusing and frustrating.

I need a consistent expectation on how I will be treated no matter what time of day I post and no matter who is on duty.

Once I have that consistent expectation, I can live with it.

So far no one here has been banned for their views. Even a person who called the admin vulgar names. That is consistent.

No such consistency exists at wov. Its a mish mash of different views on who and why someone is punished. There is no consistent expectation by customers.

I can live with a consistent expectation based on consistent enforcement.....what is unacceptable is all different enforcement where people dont know what to expect. Thats the way it is now. You never know what to expect.

 

people of value attract others, and increase interest...and as more lurkers are attracted and spend more time on the site..they may just click on a banner and sign up for a trial on bovada. Valued posters are the sugar that help bring the flies to the site. Articles by mission for example might attract others. The message board is one attraction. Yes valued customers that contribute to the sites help drive sales.(advertiser interest )

 

Ok, point taken. Thank you for explaining. I hadn't considered that. I don't think in terms of business, I guess. I also appreciate you considering me a "person of value". Obviously some here will disagree.

 

Trying to send a PM to Larry? Don't seem to have access and its been more than 30 Days? What am I not doing?

 

It is no longer, it is Chan's living room, manBoy is just a tenant.

Good to read that, because he is achieving some of those goals. Given his business decisions, you can't even say he is RIGHT. So let's review score card thus far; run to the ground on many web-sites, crap business decisions (Cyprus), demeaning women, creepy sex fiend, control-freak, lying scumbag about the timing of the sale of the site and begging for charity, abruptly terminated employment at the Venetian, failed 'slot hold' court case, failed AP. Excellent math skills, excels at finding vulnerable people at opportunistic moments (low self-esteem due to specific event or personality trait) to participate in McNugget eating and diet contests (the girl on Youtube or HotBlond to name just two) to boost his profile & reaffirm to his ego that nobody matters other than himself (I won't mention a certain crew, one of whom he has dissed more than once with his female & fat comment jibes) and he can ride a unicycle. Yes his legacy will be fine and dandy once he disappears into the wilderness.

It's like he couldn't make his mind up, there is a an Off-topic section, then a separate Buddhism section (a must for any gambling forum), Free Speech Zone, a GLBT section (another must have for any gambling site), a separate Adult section, oh yeah and a Gripes and General Discussion site. If that wasn't enough, let's create a separate Diversity 2morrow site as well, for anything not covered by the gambling forum

You mean like performing the selfish, narcissistic act of not rewarding your moderators after secure a multi-million dollar sale, without their involvement would have been impossible to achieve. Or perhaps waving his tin cup knowing damn well a sale was in the pipeline, you can respect your CEO or consider him a complete c***, not a difficult decision in this case.

True, posting about cavorting with prostitutes, trying to track down that Asian woman with the youtube channel whilst in Sydney. There is a picture on the site of Mr Casinogames and an attractive large breasted female dealer, doing a demo shot of Lucky Draw Baccarat. Spike chimes in saying she looks like his sister in law or something. Right on queue creepy manBoy starts asking Spike if he has any pictures WTF, is he collating wanking material?

You would have to assume his wife reads none of this, OR like a lot of people he surrounds himself with, is extremely subservient. Hence my previous question did he import her, which would explain things, such as why is she never at any WoV get together's, not allowed? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to assume his wife is probably belittled and thought of less than his mod's. Nobody knows if she could actually walk with $1.15M.

Not for the first time, makes an appearance after I make any long disparaging post, my guess it is to diffuse the situation, fat chance of that.

[/QUOTE="freddy, post: 22453, member: 848"]Manboy to gr8player: "Your message is 180-degrees opposite of mine. That said, it is indeed my wish that you resign your membership and take your ideas elsewhere".[/QUOTE] What is ironic about that statement, for all his math prowess and gambling knowledge manBoy was unable to be any more successful than GR8 or any Roulette, Baccarat or Craps player, that is the real irony of it. I was also sorry to see GR8 leave, it was good entertainment watching him dig deeper holes for himself.

Seriously?
I don't get this recurring theme allowing KewlJ back. Why would anybody want to be legitimately allowed back knowing the 3rd in command doesn't want you there and hates your guts, ManBoy's ego couldn't accept it, recipe for disaster.

Those that now own the board may beg to differ. Which is why we can surmise, fewer banning, less discussion of the suspension list, Tubby having to reel in her attitude and diverting her frustration on more donuts boxes.

You mean like assy-Roy¿ Bonafide AP of sock-puppery spotting.

Y'all have a good day now

 

not bothering to reading the PM criteria and posting off-topic.





There is no 30 day time limit. You need to make 300 posts and invite somebody to the board.

 

Guess that won't happen for some time. My only question and I swear over my children I am not being factitious or a wise ass! Is the only reason for this board to slam WOV? Shame it is going stagnant? Would be nice to have another board but the only active discussion/posts just about is on this thread??? Thanks, Glen.

 

You are almost correct. You missed pushing high fee online Forex scams as legitimate investing and trading. Multiple people, or 1 with multiple ID's posting how to make millions by just sending your money to some former Russian republic.

 

Your welcome to make a post in the Baccarat section, or make a post in the table games section at WoV and watch the reaction, then you might understand why this thread exists and is so active.

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