Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I never thought Larry created another name over there. This provides him a much better place to get his points across, agree or disagree with them. As for Freddy, he NEEDS WoV because he has friends over there and likes the PM feature. 2 total opposites, both dislike WoV and both were banned, but only one is so hooked on it he has to still use it.

 

On the contrary, I like WoV...always have. There have been many times where I have said what good people the members are. Refusing to drink the Kool Aid does not translate into dislike. I don't post as often because it's just not that interesting anymore with many of the best posters gone.

Many people are on more than one board...I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

Just when I say not interesting along comes this new thread : /Exoslim/.

Yes folks. Good [removed, pay to advertise] Exoslim. Help general prosperity. It washes down your colon! Now who doesn't want a clean colon?

Maybe manboy will order some for every member...an early Christmas present.

 

You must not have been paying attention: it was a hoot to watch it unfold.

The point is: Face/Fisk might have seen it unfold also, and thus might suspect he'd do the same thing at WoV.

 

B

What you are missing is I don't care- my life goes on- you my friend are the one that is upset about it


Junket King?
I offered you to stay at my place- you clearly have me confused with someone that would allow a piece of shit to stay anywhere near me- do you just dream up this stuff and put it on the forum? Are you delusional? Did you miss your meds today?

 

What on earth do you mean? I made no mention of losing $127k in some terrorism act, nor made any reference to any hoe squatting over me. I thought we could be friends, I now feel rejected

Big Ez from Florida (on another forum) offered me an apartment if I popped over, pretty sure you are the same person, I'm stupid to set myself up like that. So I guess you wouldn't be introducing me to Bleeched Whale any time soon then?

 

V...big difference between the 2 boards

First, you know me from 3 boards, and patricks is the only one with duplicate names. Mostly because its so easy, No registration required. No email address given ...just type any random name and hit enter. I was banned from there because of my ideas on gambling and because of of me asking for proof of what appears to be lies. Whether its his claim that he has brought the vig on BJ to zero, or that trends can be harnessed, or that 80 percent of people are ahead at some point in a casino visit, or that he was on 6 radio stations a week, or had 3 seminars a month, or pointing out the fact that no one on that site has made a living strictly from casino table games. And when I came back I didnt pretend to drink the koolaide...I posted being true to my beliefs.I was not banned for commenting on inconsistencies on how he ran his site. he had no group of mods that ran his board with inconsistencies. Everyone was treated consistently ...people who agreed with him stayed, and people who didnt agree were banned. Very very consistent. No special treatment. No uncertainty.

Second- wov.....i was suspended a few times for simple insults(of other munchkins like myself) that were validly administered. And then suspended 30 days for responding to the tin cup and the question...if you dont give me a donation then i ASK WHY. As you stated after the suspension was announced....question asked...question answered. And then banned for good for commenting on what I talk about here. I have no beef with the site's theories on gambling. The math is over my head.
So to come here and have this thread, and then post over there...and get caught(I AM NO COMPUTER EXPERT...i would get caught) would be outing myself as a hypocrite. And when caught, my head would be paraded around on a stick...."look at this idiot, he moans about how this site is run, how people are leaving, yet HE cant keep away". No not me. I have used the same IP all along wherever I post. I have no idea how to mask my IP. Patrick is not a super detective.....the IP has always been there for him to see.
Given the increased popularity of this thread.....I admit, I am no match for the detective work on wov.....people there would be highly motivated to say "gotcha" to me......and I would for one never give them the satisfaction of that opportunity, and more importantly I would not feel good outwardly lying by saying that I am acting as any mistreated customer would act, and I would never give them my business again. THAT would be living a lie....and if caught on wov posting......anything I said on this site would be viewed as total hypocritical trolling.

 

You're not a sock puppet unless you're posting multi aliases on the same site? Using one name here and a different or same name on another site isn't a sock puppet. Or are I missing something?

 

Are you satisfied with Muslims and the way isis is using that sect/religion as their base?

 

actually I hate michael moore films....I just referenced it as a bit of humor

his documentaries are nowhere near fair and balanced....if you just want to see one side of a story....his films are great. His film on healthcare was a joke...had some good points but alot of stuff that doesnt support his views were left out .

 

Man, but do I gotta be on my fucking toes when dealing with you, Larry lol. Yes, I am vaguely aware of your multiple socks at JP's. I'm not intimately familiar because his site gave me a headache so I didn't witness it first hand, but I did watch you titter about it for years on GG. I am aware. But that is immaterial. My comment wasn't a shaded jab or an attempt to undermine your stated conviction, I promise. I was just using it as an example, because that hinkle in my head is screaming "(omitted WoV member) is LarryS!", yet I haven't and won't lift a finger about it. It's not the right type of issue to fire up the machine for, if you take my meaning. That's all I was trying to show.

Moving on, I do agree that THIS type of back and forth couldn't exist there, but I disagree that it's a huge problem. I'd certainly prefer it, no doubt, but I think I understand a few key things which makes it OK for me. First being that it's not a philosophy forum or a debate forum, it's a gambling math forum. As I saw with the treatment of AceofSpades V1.0, people don't give much a shit about certain debates. Ace caught hell for using the speed count, and everyone and their mother took the opportunity to opine that he was a fucking retard for it, even guys I never thought I'd see say such things. Ace, bless his heart, never once challenged the facts, never said speed count was superior, never nothing. All the man ever did was say he wasn't interested in "working harder" by learning even hi-lo let alone hi-opt or better, and that he ENJOYED playing this way. He was having FUN. But that was anathema, it couldn't be accepted there because it went against the dogma of WoV, and Ace was eventually harassed off the board for the first time. I thought and still think that episode was pretty shitty, but in the end, that's what the core wanted. That IS the point of the board, to find the mathematical answer and to hold it higher than all. I might not agree, but then the onus is on me to go make my own board and have it the way I want, not to change the life's work of a man who owes me nothing.

The second reason it just wouldn't work is simple group dynamics. We have it easy here as there's, what, 8 active members of the lounge? And all of you, save me and perhaps WoN, are huddled on the same team, wearing the same colors, reading the same playbook. Over there, there's a much more diverse cast of characters. Credit where it's due, I also noticed that all on "your team" have given us leave to have our fun without chiming in and knocking us off the rails. That's pretty cool. But that aspect, one which would be somewhat necessary to have this kind of debate, does not and cannot exist over there. There's just too many voices, too many differing opinions. Member 777 just ripped me a new asshole last month; I didn't even have time to digest it and formulate a reply before RonC chimed in to put it down. I appreciated it, he did it well, but it snaps the battle between two people that is so much fun. Soon the topic gets parted and parceled all over the place, and the tangents take you right out of your own head.

Thanks for the drink offer. Promise I won't rage =)

Part of his charm. You ever read DrawingDead over there? Had me rolling last night =)

Oh, I can understand this. Just think, SOMEONE had to be the first one to figure out edge sorting, and edge sorting is an incredibly powerful AP move. But, in a place like WoV, said person would be run out on a rail because WHERE'S THE MATH?

That's just the way it is. It seems if you want to discuss something of this nature, you have to either A) come at it as if you're applying for consideration for the Nobel, that is, very scientifically with proof and evidence and results, or B) come forward very meekly so as not to anger the God of Math and just hope you are not smited. Does that suck? For you, it does. For me, kinda. But for the membership and the owner (or former owner, if you prefer) that's just the way it has to be. I mean, I don't eat swine, don't even really like bacon. But a brewery up my way has the best goddamn pulled pork sandwich you'd ever want to put in your mouth. It's the type of thing I would buy and give as a gift, it is just that sublime. But no matter if it sends all who sample it straight to Nirvana, you don't send their catering service to LarryS' family reunion. WoV is no different. Those stacks you posted could have come from a $500 investment. You might be able to sit me down and watch you do it right over again. But unless you can PROVE it, on paper... it doesn't have the rabbi's blessing.

---

Hmm... thought freddy said something that made me want to respond, but I can't find it. I guess nvm.

And Buzz, you'd better not leave. You ARE an old fucking man lol. Once you're out of the workforce, and ain't got no boss to appease, and have reached a period of freedom where you can tell the whole world to kick your ass, you're old. Ain't an insult, my friend; you old SOBs are my favorite people. V and Larry are going to make some fine old men.

Thanks again for the swag. And thanks twice for the note (he says sarcastically). It's kind of weird explaining why there's a sign that says "I am a bigot" hanging on my fridge XD

 

I agree with your reasons that it wouldnt work...however an over riding reason, that often causes people to jump in. or jump in with no real beneficial commentary...is the "how dare you" prevailing feeling exemplified by the man in charge(wiz) and taken on by some mods, and spread to the general population.

Just fill in the blank
How dare you................criticize my board....its free , you are a taker....just be happy this board is here. You are a guest if you dont like it, dont let the door hit you on the way out
How dare you.............criticize Mike in his living room
How dare you.............criticize me, a mod who is working hard for free.....and remember I am in a "promoted" position that can punish you
How dare you............criticize anything.....if you dont like it go elsewhere(I eventually was forced to take this advice)

THE "How dare you" climate, combined with the uncertain environment/uneasy environment(based on different mods deciding which rules they want to enforce strictly or at all and the uneven punishment of the rules they do decide to enforce) that you say is cool combines to make that type of debate impossible. There is a sense of entitlement on that board. Some folks feel they are entitled no to have to field criticism.

So there might be a couple of people who can form a cogent argument one way or the other chiming in on wov. But there would be a tidal wave of folks attacking me personally. You know..."why are you so interested in this, get a life, get out of mikes living room, why dont you start your own board,)....you know the "how dare you" crowd.

Face, you also get other "how dare you "folks
Like
How dare xxxx insult me

For people who are engulfed in the interest of math based solutions according to you....they seem to have alot of angst when it comes to this type of discussion. Sometimes the people engulfed in math may be great at solving math problems...but they cant articulate in a debate. So all they can come up with is "why dont you go away". And I can articulate on a message board...but I cant play a guitar, I cant even come close. But knowing that...I dont attempt to play one in public. I know to shut the fuck up musically....even though I own an acoustic guitar for 35 years.

With the supreme interest in the "discussion of the suspension list" and the hundreds of pages over the years.....I tend to think your evaluation about the much greater interest is math solutions has to be tempered somewhat.

I think the "how dare you" attitude is a climate that hangs over the entire kingdom.

 

I give you permission to hand it off to a more interested party.

And on the topic of Buzz, where you say that you look the other way...and others do as well.
I know you say that you must do your job and enforce the rules even if you dont agree, except in the cases where you want to look the other way.
But wouldnt it be better to go to your boss, along with the other mods, and tell him that you are going to zuga and ask permission to let buzz back?
Because your admission that you and others look the other way, is particularly a slap in the face of a big boss being that the big boss had reason to ban him personally. Plus it frustrates members who see uneven punishment over and over. Then again letting him back after he has given you 10 more reasons to ban him for 10 lifetimes would also be frustrating for others.
So I guess it comes down to respect for a boss. If zuga has done things where he has lost your respect...then by all means keep doing what you are doing.

 

Two reasons.

One is that I think that talk should be initiated and conducted by Buzz and Zuga. And yes, that's an I-I-I but also not one I'd be all that willing to budge on. And I can't for one minute imagine Buzz asking for that, or being happy about it if I just did it myself. He's not one of those who needs a hand holding. But yeah, even if he were, it'd be a task to make me change my stance of "You got in it, now stand up and climb out".

The second... like I said, while I completely agree that "black and white" is the easiest, clearest, and maybe even "best" way, I can't discount the positives I (think I) see when those rules are sometimes skirted. It doesn't help that I, as a philosophy, do not hold anything short of a "spirit of the law" attitude; I really do loathe "letter of the law", I think it causes too many obvious errors. So when it comes to Buzz or any other harmless, even productive, sock, I fall to spirit. Trolls go away because they're disruptive and cause a negative wave to roll through the forum. We don't let socks in because troll gonna troll. But if someone is just posting, I don't even have a reason to look at them in the first place. Look at all here who are admittedly socking all the time. WHO CARES? If they start being assholes, then they'll be gone. If not, what's the problem?

I realize this can be looked at as disrespectful. I'll state I have almost no contact with Zuga, maybe <5 PMs when he first arrived and that's it. Those were just greetings and introductions, haven't spoken to him since. But I give him the same base respect I give everyone, and he's done nothing to not warrant it. Plus, I observed him in his early days being communicative and responding to just about every single member request. This option or that tab, this graphic or that bug, and he was always there, always addressing the issue. I respect Zuga just fine. If this is looked at as disrespect, I can only say sorry. It felt right. Feels right.

We can discuss it, we can ignore it, I can be left to do as I will, I can be made blue or even red without a word. I guess I assume Green means "go ahead" /shrug

 

So if I understand. You did say that Zuga had reason to ban Buzz. You did say that Buzz should not have kept up his behavior. But you also say IF I understand correctly(and I may not)...that Buzz should be a man and apologize to Zuga and see where he can take it.
Buzz is currently taking the coward's way around the situation....is that right? And you support that?
You have said something similar in the past that you believe people who do wrong, including yourself ,should admit it, apologize or make good on it and move on. Those are the old time values you live by.
Yet you provide shelter for a man who is the antithesis of that belief. Someone who did wrong, but hides in the shadows not admitting it or making good on it by calling /emailing zuga and either apologizing or giving his side.

 

Weird, huh?

It's kind of like my views on other transgressions. If someone stoops to insults, or "how dare you", or "he said mean things", I like for THAT to be their punishment. I like for my best argument to be no argument at all, for them to do the work, so to speak, and reveal themselves as the lesser. I like for the target to take the opportunity to act with decorum and be the better.

Buzz, I sorta feel the same. I know Buzz as stubborn. He's feisty, it's what makes Buzz "Buzz". I also think I know him as a man of character. I see the way he writes, what he writes about, and I see a man who cares. I do wonder what he feels about it, whether he gets his kicks because fuck Zuga, or if there's a bit of a register of shame. Babs sure cares for him and doesn't like the situation. I sure care for him and I don't like it either. I prefer him to just be Buzz, not for him to hide his japes lest he be revealed.

So, it's that thing of mine. That quirk, me "manipulating the situation for my own reasons". You got me there.

Can't help it. Part of me is simply entertained, building excitement until the final tipping point. But most of me wants to see what happens. I want to see if Buzz relents, or remains unmovable. I want to see if Zuga responds or considers, and how that will go down. I want this whole relationship to resolve, whichever way it goes. And I guess I don't want it to be me who shuts all of that down.

What can I say? "Know" it's wrong, but conscience doesn't object. Again, you got me there.

 

now THAT is a no nonsense "old time" honest answer. no need for me to go on with that. thanks

Its a fair response,(fair not used as a grade....but as in being "reasonable")......but as reasonable as you are....our conversations do point to how the uncertain conditions are created for the community.

How dare you........... be so honest so as to leave me speechless.

 

You, speechless?

That'll be the day!

 

Someobdy who has been nuked 6 or 7 times yet remains, isn't that an SP, maybe we should ask the expert arsey-royW.

You can't be serious. Have seen he section headings? Buddhism, GLBT, noticed the most popular thread? Some might like to think that, but it is far from the truth. Prostitution, Uni-cycling, McNugget eating voyeurism!!!

Technically he doesn't, ethically & morally he owes all those that helped look after the site and secure his windfall (also while he gallivanted around the globe, didn't take his family you will have noticed, which is what normal people do) . Now you all work for free for rich successful business people across the ocean.

I can't think of any other gambling forum WoV can be compared to, it's not like Brian or Victor or any of the other board owners are multiple millionaires. People moderator on those sites to help out, WoV is different, it's primary function is not discussion (this may have been the aim with it's inception, but is no longer), rather the discussion generates traffic which generates revenue for the owners via advertising. The site wouldn't exist with advertising, there would be no point to it for Chan and Zuga.

There wasn't any trickle down, because manboy is a narcissistic, selfish self-centered control-freak who expects everybody to give him homage with no questions asked. You like him so do it anyway, now you and the others serve Chan and Zuga for $00.00. The rich getting richer and the poor, well who cares, they certainly don't and that included manBoy himself. Correction, he probably does care, so long as it is not going to cost him anything, sympathy and advice are cheap.

Yes we've heard the argument, nobody wouldn't accept or expect anything due to undivided loyalty and devotion to your guru who never gave anybody a second thought, other than himself (even trying to pimp his members for a ride). Yes it may not take up much of your time and you enjoy it anyway. That is not the point, he could have at least offered rather taking everybody for granted, also there is the principal, it was the right thing to do. A couple of grand wouldn't dip into $2.3M that much, he could recoup that in interest alone. But no he didn't give it a second thought and those of us looking at the situation from the outside have a clearer prospective, than those involved.

Your all being taken advantage of at the end of the day which is your prerogative, more fool the lots of you's. There seems to be an absence of pride and dignity, look in the mirror and find some. Then again controlling people do have a certain knack when it comes to gravitating towards certain people, i.e those that will do their bidding and in fact they feel they can manipulate.

I should now apologize for any offense as you seem a really nice guy, a bit wet behind the ears. However I won't, rather "you need to wake up and smell the coffee". I know nothing about you, where or how you were brought up (sorry, don't want to know either), suffice to say their maybe a trait in letting people take advantage or walk over you. I am loathe to divulge personal information, but will share this, personally I was brought up in a rough inner city, think in terms of the TV program "The Wire" or Harlem in NY, that kinda upbringing gives you a hard edge, you are nobody's fool (I think it is also useful when gambling, I digress). I wouldn't have waited to see if that tight c**t was going to make an offer, fuck that, I'd be reminding him, pure and simple, if that failed paying him a visit to put my point across along with my warrior spirit. The last thing I would be doing is continue with the states quo, but you're not me and I'm not you, different upbringing, different morals, different codes.

Sure, when you invest, you are rewarded in casino chips, duh.