Blackjack Current feud with Qfit (Norman Wattenberger)

A bit of unsolicited advice to those writing novels in every complaint about qfit:

If you want anyone to actually read it, chop it in half about three times, then cut out all the pointless drivel, then edit it again so that it makes sense. But the novel with tons of filler nonsense seems to work for staff writers at WoV and LCB, so what do I know.

 

Sorry it took so long to respond. Saw the admin post last night, and was laughing so hard I thought I’d need a defibrillator. But, alas KJ, I must apologize that I didn’t die; so you cannot yet celebrate as you have twice posted you will do on that day. Besides, I had more important things to do. Like determining the number of holes it takes to fill the Royal Albert Hall. I think the Beatles miscalculated as they didn’t count the doors (or the Doors.)


But, there do exist serious matters here for APs.


First off, I have to say that almost nothing KJ has posted for over a year is true. And if you think he tells the truth, you should re-examine your truth radar as it is obviously off. I never asked for KJ to be removed from any forum, anywhere. Period. I asked Mike to delete a couple of KJ posts which were personal attacks against other people and against WoV policy. That is the request that Mike spoke of in the PM that KJ illegally posted. I did not go to WoV to attack KJ. He had been attacking me and three others for six months without any response from me whatsoever. I went to WoV to tell members of this neat Blackjack Weather Central I created (free of course). I was immediately attacked by KJ. Later, I updated the page and posted about the update. I was immediately attacked again. Those attacks were so gross they were deleted. I then found myself in a battle as KJ had spent six months poisoning the membership against me. I found the site to be useless for posting and left until it cooled down. As time went by, the membership saw KJ’s actions here and elsewhere, and realized just how nasty and obsessed he is. So, after quite a bit of time, I returned. No one attacks me there anymore. But, KJ would have you believe everything I do is based on KJ. That everything Mike does I control. That’s just plain weird.


KJ was banned because he posted private messages, an extreme transgression. Something he continues to do. He simply has no concept of privacy. Who would anyone ever trust a person that posts your private conversations? Clearly, such a person doesn’t belong on AP forums where privacy is an enormous concern. Does anyone here know what the P in PM stands for?


Now, as to the admin here. Ignoring the fact that I wasn’t talking about this site, and it would have been true even if I had, the actions of the owner of this site are disgraceful, albeit a touch humorous and weirdly overboard. He has doxed a member and posted private messages. This is about the lowest of the lowest of the low things that an admin can do. If he did this to me, than he can dox anyone here and publish any PMs between members. I have never in my life seen a forum stoop this low – and I have been in forums since before the web existed. No one should ever trust this admin again.


Now as to my membername here, Victim. I created this name at the start of this site as I was speaking for the victims of a half dozen sites whose names and posts were stolen in violation of international law. At that time, the server was in London. It is now in Luxembourg to avoid U.S. laws, although the owner attempts to hide this. If you look at the posts in the BJ forum for the first couple years, you will see that, not only were they stolen from BJTF, but the post names are the original membernames at BJTF, making it look as though those posters were actually here when in fact they had never heard of the site. The admin claims this was clearly marked. Look for yourself. People were responding to stolen posts not realizing the original posters at BJTF would never see the responses. BJTF was only one of the many sites from which posts were stolen to fill up the site, while his press release claimed that innumerable top experts were members here. (The press release is one of the funniest PRs I have ever read.)


Now as to my ability to post here. Every post I have made has been deleted or hidden. The admin claims this is not true because you can see them via Google. Who reads a forum via Google? I tried forum search: no posts by me. I tried my profile: no posts. I looked at every single forum: no posts. So no, I could not post here in such a manner that people could read them. He’ll probably undo that now to “prove” me wrong.


Back to KJ. Many friends and ex-friends have suggested to KJ that he seek out help. I’ve suggested to him privately that he does such, and have asked his friends to perform an intervention. Seriously, spending your life wallowing in hate, spending years and thousands of posts attacking perceived enemies will ultimately lead to a downward spiral. And, this is all over the fact he doesn’t like the counting systems some people like. A subject that bores me to death. I couldn’t care less about such.


Look, there are some people that are simply not compatible with forums. They cannot accept criticism or anyone disagreeing with their positions. They think people with other opinions are not just people with other opinions, and possibly wrong; but evil and criminal. They attach malevolent motivations to anyone that disagrees with them. The entire point of a forum is to trade experiences, evaluations, investigations, and opinions. If you fail to win a discussion, and then accuse the other of being a malevolent being with ulterior motives is – well, there’s a word for that. KJ simply won’t accept the fact that different people have different skills, different goals, and different ideas. He has spent years claiming that those with whom he disagrees, and those who beat him in debates; must be evil. That is not what a legitimate site wants as a “contributor”.


Six or seven forums and a newspaper. That’s where KJ has taken his campaign of hate. He has sworn that he will continue attacking me for 50 years. He has told Mike the same. Twice, he said he’ll celebrate on the day I die, and has brought up my death on several other occasions. These are not good arguments to support a position. All because he doesn’t agree with other ideas on how to play.


He has now admitted four times that he enjoys spreading lies about me because he thinks it disturbs me. He only recently admitted that the source of those lies is a friend of his that he didn’t know was a card-counter catcher working for a casino. Yeah, there are casinos that don’t like me.


Look, I’d be laughing all of this off if it weren’t for the fact that KJ has made so many threats against Mike and myself. That he has misled so many people. That he has gone so far as to post PMs and e-mails; proving that he should never, ever, ever, ever be trusted by any AP ever again.


But, even more than that, he is causing permanent damage to himself. He needs help. Those here that support his rants are supporting his downfall. You guys may think this is all good fun. But, we are dealing with a human being who appears to be on the edge of a breakdown. Years, numerous forums, wilder and wilder claims, losing all his friends. Can you people not realize this is a troubled person? If not, he will continue his epic whine-a-thon, and Mike and I will continue our work.


This will be my last post here (assuming it isn’t deleted, hidden or modified as I’ve been advised by other admins is common practice here). Posting here is silly as the admin doxes people, alters posts, claims the site is uncensored, but continually alters the definition of “censored”, violates copyright by using a server in a tiny country (population 570,000), and posts private messages. No AP with any respect for himself would ever contribute to such a site by posting. I’m certain KJ will respond with an incredible number of new falsehoods. But, there’s no point in responding to them as it will simply engender yet more. Next I’ll hear that I was behind 9/11. (Well, I was already accused of that elsewhere.) I suggest that people in this thread understand that you are wasting your life wallowing in hatred and move on. Our time on Earth is very short. Smell the roses, concentrate on what is good and enjoyable in life. Get laid. At least for now, this is a beautiful planet. Enjoy it while you can.


Now, back to that Royal Albert Hall hole problem. I know it can be simmed.

 

Norm, Thank You for saying what many of us have thought about this site for a while. You simply cannot trust this site, nor should anyone. I do hope others follow your lead and do not post here again. Anyone of value can post at WOV or elsewhere with the exception of Mickey and I hope someone is working to get him back there. That site is lessor without him. The majority of the rest have been banned or are simply Roulette fools or Forex scammers.

Every post made here, regardless of the reason helps these fucks and they don't deserve it.

The best thing is to sit back and watch them die a slow death.

 

I am going to try to keep this short (probably can't), because I don't really feel the need to say too much, as Norm has been exposed for who he really is. And the post he just made is part of that manipulation. Norm can come across as this kind, thoughtful academic type person, thoughtfully making his points. And then in the hour you will get a nasty email with threats of legal action. He is a Jekyll and Hyde character. It is part of his manipulation, part of his bullying. He is a master manipulator and will do and say anything to get his way.

So Norm would have us believe that he showed up at WoV after 5 years not to continue a feud with me, but because he was this great guy who wanted to share his blackjack weather thing. All of the sudden after 5 years and having recently said he would never participate at WoV because he did not trust Mike Shackleford, good guy Norm was all of the sudden concerned about the blackjack AP's at WoV and wanted to help them. Bullshit! We know his true intentions because only a month prior he did the exact same thing at BJ21. No mention of the great BJ weather thing (which I don't find very useful) at BJ21 though . Norm just showed up at a site he rarely participated on because of "issues" with other members to continue a feud with me.

I think the one thing I can agree with from Norm's 'good caring citizen' post above is "The entire point of a forum is to trade experiences, evaluations, investigations, and opinions". Sharing my own experiences has been the point of my participation. Norm likes to say that is his goal, yet he had a very long history of shutting down many, many people's opinions, removing posts, banning people that he doesn't agree with. And for some reason he thinks he has the right to then go to other sites and demand other administrators censor, remove posts, ban and general shut down people that Norm doesn't agree with. That is a control freak...a bully. Why on earth would someone think they can control what is said on other sites?

Norm alters the facts of what this is about by trying to conflate two different issues. The count debate, of which I have been involved and what this issue really is about...calling out someone who is intentionally misleading other players with completely mathematical impossible, bullshit claims.

Yes, I am a proponent of simplicity, concerning card counting. That's all it takes to win in today's world of blackjack. The countermeasures that casinos have employed since the 1980's makes those so called more advanced counts less beneficial than they were back in the golden days of card counting, when there were single deck games dealt deep into the deck. It isn't the 1980's and we don't have those kind of conditions. I wish we did....but we don't. You are better off focusing your attention on something that matters...not what count. It isn't the 1980's!

So while I am an proponent of simplicity, I really don't care what count someone uses. Why would I? Use what you are comfortable with. I have friends that I network with that use many different counts. And I have never suggested they play anything else. This notion that Norm keeps pushing that I insist everyone play my way, is ridiculous. And it is not what this feud is about!

No this isn't about a count debate as Norm is trying to mis-direct. This is about a guy...a complete fraud, misleading players and members with grandioso statements of 500% increase and eliminating the variance of blackjack play with his super duper counting methods. These claims are impossible....mathematically impossible. And Norm a respected Math guy knows that. So the one single time Norm should have shut down someone, not based on opinion as he has done me, but based on pushing completely false and misleading claims, Norm inexplicably remained quiet.

I guess he had and has that right. He had the right to allow and provide a platform for false and misleading claims on his now 'voodoo' site. He had the right to eliminate anyone he likes, including me....on his site. He did not and does not have the right to troll me to other sites and bully, demand other administrators censor, shut down and remove posts. That is the actions of a bully and control freak and that is exactly what Norm is. A manipulative bully and control freak.

 

You would think a guy that makes the threats that norm does, legal threats, copyright infringement, filing complaints (he filed a complaint with yahoo mail, saying he didn't want me contacting him and he did this after he initiated contact with me), would know what an actual threat is.

Me saying that I think his site and the false and misleading claims allowed, is so destructive to members of the community that I will be happy when it ceases to exist is not a threat.

Me saying that I find Norm's manipulative, bullying behavior, so offensive that I will be happy when his tired old ass dies is not a threat.

Me saying that I will celebrate the day he dies is not a threat.

Me saying that I will make my case for the next 40 years, against the actions that Norm took and that Mike aided Norm with at WoV is not a threat.

Certainly me repeating rumors about Norms aversion to soap and bathing is not a threat.

Granted, some of these things may be distasteful, and I am not always proud of the way I respond, but I have made no threats, so stop with the lies, Norman.

 

And yes, I failed to keep it brief. My failure. My apologies.

 

KJ, my advice would be to grow the fuck up and move on. You have made EVERYONE who ever respected you in the forum world look at you as a sad joke.

Why not stop being such a drama queen and go do what you do best before you fuck your livelihood up. Who knows to what extent someone will go to out you to the casinos?

Your not a victim and neither is Norm. But you are actually like a baby.

And yes my advice is as worthless as your "online" reputation is or ever was. Sad to see you end up like this but it could be a lot worse.

 

Boz these are your first two replies to me, after I posted here.

So what has changed? Yes, I get that you and others are tired of reading about it and so you now have turned on me. I am the bad guy now because you are tired of it. That is sort of human nature. It doesn't involve you so, you move on. If it doesn't involve you, then screw it, you want something new, something in the moment to discuss. That's fine for you. But for me nothing has changed. I was treated unfairly and I have the right to complain about it, just as you stated above (highlighted). I am sorry if you don't like it.

ps. Because you have abandoned me, because you have lost interest, so you no longer care....I am glad the Phillies continue to suck!....continue to be the worse team in baseball by far. And I am no longer pulling for your sixers to escape the basement. You deserve the losers that you have.

 

So a guy shows up at Norm's forum in the last 24 hour, using the handle 200%. He drops a teaser about achieving advantages much, much greater than the typical card counter (as his handle suggests). As time goes on it is revealed the guy is indeed talking about typical card counting, with what he thinks is an 'out of the box thinking' type twist. He is going to spread 1-200. And he is going to do so with only two different size bets, his minimum and his max which will be 200 times the minimum.

Ok, this is nothing new. Nothing out of the box here. This is a slash and burn approach. A number of somewhat famous players and teams have used this. You burn out the place with huge, obnoxious spread and bigger advantage and move on to the next taking advantage of the fact that there are now so many casinos available. I am not indorsing this by any means. Goes 100% against my goals and priority of longevity. BUT, players have used this successfully for brief periods, some making big amounts of money before they were shut down everywhere.

But this guy, Mr 200%, was immediately ganged up on and attacked by the small vocal 'boy's club' membership at Norm's site, including, maybe lead by Norm himself. So I ask Norm, is this the kind of tolerance to sharing of opinions that you are talking about? You and your crew have basically run this guy off, calling him names like "a 21 year old with a low IQ", simply because you all (as I don't) like his opinion.

This little incident, not only highlights you hypocrisy, but it is a microcosm of decades of your behavior. You are intolerant of any opinion that differs from your own, and immediately seek to demonize and run off anyone with such a differing opinion. Trade opinions my ass!

 

Sounds like you with your "F U" message to Wizard.


Is this all starting to make sense yet, KJ?

 

Norm may prove you wrong on this one, admin. Norm is a bully. Bullies don't like it when someone stands up to them. That is when they take their ball and run home.

Norm prefers sites where he can bully the administrators into doing what he wants. He knows that is not this site, so I would be very surprised if he continues on here.

 

Yes, makes perfect sense to me. You are an big ass-kiss. You have your nose so far up your friend Mike's ass, that you are unwilling to acknowledge that he was wrong. He allowed himself to be used and played. And then didn't have the balls to admit in public what he was admitting privately, that he made a mistake.

 

Norm already assassinated his own character, and on top of this your claim that Norm would try to "shut down" anything about KJ is an outright lie, he did just the opposite in the very thread where he threatened me with a suspension and "claimed" that I didn't know the facts, despite the fact that I gave him the opportunity to email me privately and discuss his side and to "correct" The facts.

Your ENTIRE post bullshit, Stoner, from start to finish, and I question if you even READ what had been discussed on his forum, in his and I's email, and here on this forum at all before you finished swallowing that load.

No you don't, Norm. You have nothing better to do. You keep making this commentary of "I have better things to do, I'm busy", but you don't. You have all the time in the world, when needed, to smear every single AP who has ever so much as disagreed with you or slighted you in any way. You're an old man with nothing better to do. You don't go out and get sun, you don't get out and socialize, you just sit back on your forum and wait for fewer and fewer posts to be made on a daily basis until your forum dies for two reasons.

1. Your forum cannot grow so long as your membership remains such a caustic, volatile atmosphere of people ripping into "newbies" first learning how to walk as an AP.
2. You prune contributing members, like KJ, from the forum because your moderation, or lack thereof at times is so personally favored one way or the other, that its a glowingly obvious point that you favor one side of an argument or one individual over another, despite the fact the long term will suffer by doing so.

Like the way you handle yourself in a dispute with others once you decide you no longer want them on your forum? Because KJ had posted here, before you and I got into an argument, and his explanation of how things went down, was almost verbatim with how my experience went with you, Norm.

Like how you claimed I defended MM?
Like how you claimed I posted a scam link?
Like how you claimed I had sent you "disgusting" emails?
Like how you claimed I had posted the emails in a place you couldn't respond?
Like how you claimed I had harassed you in email?
Like how you claimed I had edited those emails?
Like how you claimed I had no knowledge of the events with you and KJ prior?
Like how you claimed KJ was the one to call and threaten Shack?
Like how you claimed that I've lied about a SINGLE item since you and I began arguing?

You must have a really broken radar yourself, or a really fucked up definition of what "truth" is.

Do you have a legal degree, Norm? You keep using this word, "Illegally" for matters that aren't actually illegal.

Also, why is it that you tell others to moderate, but when I ask you to moderate, you pretend like you don't read all 20 new posts per day on your forum? Interesting.

I find it interesting that you keep using this commentary about the "Free" services you provide between your bullshit with me, and bullshit with KJ. What's the relevance here, Norm?

Your wording and phrasing of your arguments with KJ and I is very suspect.

You keep using words like "Gross" and "Disgusting" Norm, like buzzwords. The thing is, though, they are incorrectly used. What KJ (initially) said was not "gross", and what I said was not "Disgusting".

You've actually done this yourself, Norm. I don't even know KJ, and the fire time he ever reached out to me was about 7 hours before you banned me, an hour after you banned me, I read his email from the morning.

I bring this up because I didn't need his influence to see that you were doing a damned good job at poisoning your own reputation yourself. As a matter of fact, Norm, this goes back years with you and I, where I criticize Don or Stoner for being too "Brash" with newer members, or with current members who carry on conversations after the questions have been answered (not a bad thing by any means, Don).

There are MANY on your site who dislike you. The evidence of that is by the fact that your "private" forums are not, in fact, private. I get a few emails a day by individuals updating me on relevant commentary, and I suspect ADMIN here does too, since he had pictures to post.

A false narrative directed by yourself, Norm, as you tirelessly smeared KJ over the years ad-nauseam to make him sound crazy and obsessed, when in reality, it was you all along. One only needs to read the email chain between you and I to figure out the harsh reality of your claim. Though, I do agree that KJ has certainly gone a little too far with it, and openly celebrates the fact that he despises you for doing so, I do not begrudge him in any way. As APs, our reputations can at times, be important. Who would want to meet up with some half crazy, stark mad lunatic like KJ? That's exactly the narrative you've pushed on your site, and I suspect others via alternate identities on the forum. As a matter of fact, you did just the same with me.

If what you're claiming is a complete fabricate, completely bullshit, yeah I'd absolutely trust an AP posting those private conversations openly for people to see the reality of what they were dealing with. You've spent so much time trying to paint KJ as this bad man, as this crazed lunatic, and now turning that same aggression on me, that by posting those "private" messages, it clears the air and shows that the argument isn't quite nearly as one sided as you claim it to be. Instead of being the aggressors, once forced off of your "amazing" site, it turns out KJ and I were defending ourselves against your claims, and you then turn ultra aggressive in private, foolishly believing that you're somehow protected by copyright claims, and you aren't.

This was further evidenced by the fact that on your first fucking email response to me, you actually wrote, "copyright 2017 Norman Wattenberger". My god, (as Moses would put it) has your cheese slid off your cracker.

How ignorant are you, Norm? You very specifically were referring to this site when you made very obvious mention of the WoV thread here. On top of that, I personally have not posted this anywhere else, and I do not believe I've ever signed up on Zens forum, and I've certainly not posted it there, as you've claimed.

Similar to creating a post full of lies, like you did with me, that I couldn't respond to. Editing my private invitation to you out and claiming it to be a scam site. Then extending my suspension from 14 days to life because I told you that I had intended to post on that very thread that the link provided was not a scam. Then, claiming that I was banned for life due to "disgusting emails" to which AP community blew up my inbox ASKING for the email chain because many of them suspected that there was something "off" with the way your "knee-jerk" reaction to my suspension happened. One person posted publicly about banning me, and you used that as your justification for doing so, claiming that the "community" tends to weigh in. Despite the fact that your "community" also posts on other sites, and quite a few of them are on my discord. Sad for them to realize that your "Community" really means, "Myself, Don, and a few trusted individuals", even your own members, some of which the entire community respects, have asked you to publish the email chain on your forum, and you deny them due to "copyright violations" after I publicly gave you permission to do so.

What are you scared of, Norm? Are you scared that if you posted the email chain unedited, in its entirety that you would lose public opinion? That old phrase, "if the shoe fits, wear it" comes to mind, because that same "directing the narrative" mentality came up when ZG happened prior to KJ, too.

Funny how three different, credible APs in this world, to which you are not one, have been treated with the EXACT same process on three very, very different situations from start to finish. Hate to break it to you, Norm, but you were already losing your credibility before the KJ thing happened, man. I hate to credit MM with anything, but he did once accuse you of protecting your brand, and it seems if anything, that idiot was right about ONE thing, and that is the way that you go about your everyday business protecting your brand and trying to do damage control when its needed to steer a narrative.

As a wolf in sheeps clothing.

To which you hold no degree and are not a qualified candidate to speak about.

Another example of you "protecting a brand" with the false narrative of speaking for others.

Norm, nobody has ever asked that you speak on their behalf.

Like smearing my name behind closed doors where I cannot defend myself? Cowardice and very hypocritical, Norm.

I believe I hear the Pot calling the Tea Kettle Black.

As a way of steering others opinions of KJ, not because you actually have a sincere concern for his well being.

You seem to know this all too well, perhaps you are very experienced, no?

Yet these are the everyday topics on your forum, to which your members indeed DO care. It just serves to show how little you care for the interests of the AP community.

So they moderate their own forums, or create their own channels of information. Or, they get so caught up in the court of public opinion, that they wildly, and aggressively, attack those that disagree with them, which is exactly what you have done, Norm.

You yourself are no AP, so who gave you the right to be judge, jury, and executioner in the AP community? You made a phenomenal piece of software, and your contributions to this point will always be remembered, but using that as a platform to attack others you disagree with is sickening, such as the post to ADMIN here about how no member of the BJHoF would post here is ridiculous and has no merit. If the BJHoF were actually relevant and had measure towards success, over half the members wouldn't even be there.

Hell, you'd probably see an everyday grinder like KJ in there if it was about relevance and success. I've learned more from his wisdom about how to BE an actual AP than yours or Dons. What does that have to say towards the validity of the BJHoF and the content of their posts on forums? Most of those guys haven't even played for years and their relevance is questionable in the modern game.

Interesting, this is how you've portrayed, ZG, KJ, and Myself. Pot calling the kettle black, again?

And again.

To which you post nothing of value on your own forum, and KJ posted PLENTY of when he was a member there.

No, there's actually a name for that, its called Norman Wattenberger. Just being honest, man.

That whole saying, Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, oh wow its becoming a cyclical thing where the only common denominator has been the Fool.

He very much accepts that fact as is evidenced by your archived posts where both myself (Exoter175) and KJ have contributed, as we OFTEN had completely different angles and approaches to the discussion, but we very, very, very rarely ever went beyond the simple disagreement, and rarely did it ever spill over to another post. As a matter of fact, one could argue back then that I was more "disruptive" than he, and that he was always cautioning me to accept others' views and goals.

But this is exactly what you do, Norm. Both ADMIN and I here have "beaten" you in debate, and in turn you make false accusations against me, and you make false accusations against him and this forum.

Whoa whoa whoa, stop right there. You believe that his hatred towards you and towards Mike have everything to do with disagreeing with others on how to play? Are you kidding me Norm? You're a fucking fool! It has everything to do with the respect one deserves but seldom receives from people like yourself. Just as you showed the entire community with the way you handled "our" situations.

The difference between KJ and I is that I had much less invested into that site that he did, and I religiously took brief hiatuses to get away from your drama, Norm, as well as the fact that you were, and always have been incapable of moderating a forum when it needed to be moderated. Instead, you'd pick a side and when you felt you could land the final blow, you'd take it. You have forever and always been the silent aggressor in all of this, always poking and prodding him to get a reaction, knowing it would. I almost feel bad for KJ, being your eternal plaything.

So the difference between you two is that he admits it and you deny it? Hmm.

Which isn't true and credible, and Mike backed that up.

Proving nothing other than you didn't give him the ability to defend himself, forcing him to find other means to defend himself, like posting your "private' conversations publicly.

Just as I did after you attempted to smear me with no ability to defend myself. And boy did you make up some bullshit norm, especially those lies about the scam link, about how I edited, in any way, the emails between us, or that you weren't able to post on this site.

Yet, here you are, emails completely untouched, posting on this site, with your own members on the very communication platform you claimed was a scam link.

In baseball, that's trike 1, 2 and 3, you're out. (to give you a Moses reference you very much hate)

By the way, you are no AP norm, so you are not qualified to speak on our behalf on whether or not we (the APs of the world) would or would not trust someone for publishing an email. As a matter of fact, almost everyone I've spoken to has expressed the justification for me doing, having said they'd do the same in my shoes.

Are you now also a qualified mental health professional? As well as Lawyer and AP?

After you pulled the same bullshit on me, somehow KJ seems considerably more credible now.

As for you having any "work" to do, that's a very cute disguise of pretending to have better things to do, yet here you are, lying again. Mike, I cannot speak for, though I do not in ANY way think he would be pleased that you were here on this forum speaking on his behalf. I believe he'd speak for himself and let you take the fall, alone, on this one.

But it won't be the last time you check up on it, or comment about it on another forum behind closed doors, so this rambling is irrelevant, Norm. Also, nice attack you threw in there, again.

Yet, here I am, here KJ is, here (swallows pride) Mickey Crimm is, here is your forum buddy RollingStoned. It would seem that your assessment of APs is incorrect, Norm. I'd be willing to wager there's a very large swath of your players with accounts over here, perhaps you two need to compare registered emails one day, though I know ADMIN wouldn't do that on such a large scale without a very, very imminent threat to the userbase.

As you have.

A silent stab at ZenGrifter, who has had zero input on this thread so far. Always on the attack, Norm.

You should consider your own advice, Norm. In psychology they call this "projection".

Well, that's a lie lol.

 

I liked this guy. He was completely objective. He didn't let friendships get in the way of what he knew was right and wrong. He called it as he saw it....fairly every time. Where did he go. On a side note, I almost forgot, Norm started a thread on his site entitled "rolling stoned" just so he could trash you. Remember that RS? That is the guy we are talking about!

 

How about this one. Remember just after I was banned, when I reported that Norm contacted Mike 19 times in a 24 hour period demanding that action be taken against me. I made the mistake of saying Norm PM'ed Mike 19 times. For Days Norm denied that, saying I was lying and that he Never PM'ed Mike. Finally, Mike made a post and said that Norm communicates with him via email. So Norm emailed Mike 19 times, rather than PM. That is the kind of shister this guy is.

And by the way.....19 emails in a 24 hour period, demanding action be take. Is that not the ultimate in bullying? Is there possible a clearer definition of bullying?

 

This would make for a hilarious episode of Dr. Phil.

 

It's no wonder Mike banned me after that. He just grew tired of emptying his inbox from Norm's complaints.

 

How many times have I said you should not have been banned from WOV? I've said it several times....and why you keep insisting I don't acknowledge that is beyond me.

Are you serious? Have you never read one of Norm's post that says we shouldn't talk about someone who can't respond?

There's no such thing as "completely objective". I try to be as objective as I can and I assume others try as well. But we've already gone over this several times. It started with you being wronged then it shifted to you essentially turning crazy and obsessing over all this stuff and talking about celebrating when people die, talking poorly of them and attacking them over a long period of time, etc. A regular person would be mad/disgruntled/etc. for a week or so, probably post some stuff they may regret....then be done with it. Then down the road try to make amends or figure out a way so everyone's happy, and that's that. Instead, you've obsessed over WOV for the past year and BJTF for even longer.

Yes, I remember that thread happening, although I honestly can't remember what it was about. I assume it was about Tthree & ZMF being idiots (which is still true). Yeah, I still agree with you that Tthree and ZMF are harmful to the community by misleading new and experienced players into nonsense. And when they post something idiotic then I'll respond....if I even bother to read their posts, but I usually don't read them, sometimes skim or glance over them (since they're blocked).