Blackjack Current feud with Qfit (Norman Wattenberger)

That's funny, considering you've said different about me on Norm's forum.

I'd go back there to quote the post........but.......wah wahhhh.

Its true, though. That site is absolutely dominated by a bunch of wannabe "professionals" who all have vices stronger than their AP abilities. That isn't to say that there isn't a large number of regulars who provide value by any means. Its just that there's a core group of "players" who don't play, that have a way of trying to directing narratives on the forum, like a large group of "ol birds".

The problem is, guys like Norm and Don, who don't play any blackjack relative to people like myself, or like KJ when he posted there, have a tendency to attack us for correcting their "theoretical ideas" of the modern game and how best to play it.

Though Don and Norm both are absolutely invaluable assets to the mathematics of blackjack, their playing experience, or lack thereof, brings into question their advice, which doesn't always best suit the interested party in the real world.

I think the issue, personally, comes down to age more or less. There's a large number of younger guys like Myself or like a Ryemo who are much younger than Norm's running mates, and there's always been a sociable disconnect there, making it incredibly hard to carry on a conversation over the internet at times.

Couple that with the anonymity of the internet (for the most part) and its practically a breeding ground for a community to become combative.

No joke.

What was said, was something to the affect that Norm was treating me the same way that he treated KJ, ZG, and MM, ultra aggressive in the smear campaigns but very clearly telling a lie about how innocent he really was.

It just goes to show how ignorant and lost Norm really is, I've basically been at the forefront of shutting MM down since the text messages got leaked, and he'd have known that and read them for himself if he'd have clicked the discord link I provided him and had a chat with me.

Instead, he'd rather tell lies and smear names, its the only thing he's good at. He likes to get WAYYYYY ahead of the ball when he thinks the other shoe is going to drop. Why else would he move his thread dedicated to me (because he's hellbent on smearing my name) to the private section to continue smearing on the basis of "copyright". Members of his own forum asked for the transcripts.

Norman Wattenberger HAS MY PERMISSION to post the ENTIRE email chain between he and I. He chooses not to because it makes him look bad.

 

Exoter, you sure talk a lot.
And you seem to have a lot of free time on your hands to make endless posts on internet forums.
You remind me of tthree.
Although I think you may be an even bigger poser than he is.

 

I always like this line of commentary here, "You sure have a lot of time on your hands to make posts", what? 25 minutes of reading and replying to posts as I wind down for the night? It really doesn't take me that long to comment Bjarg, and you're more than welcome to ask RCJH over on Norms forum if I was posing last night as we casino hopped through three casinos. To be fair, though, I'm rarely ever home, but this week I've been home for insurance purposes (appraiser).

 

And there you have it! A further, yet scary, look inside the bizarre mind and person that is Norm Wattenberger/Qfit.

Everyone else is lying. Whomever you are talking about is lying and out to get Norm. And this dates back decades, through dozens of feuds and wars with members of the community! Norm is right and telling the truth, everyone else is lying and out to get him. And everyone else is using fake posts, fake conversations, fake this or that. Everyone else is a compulsive liar, or mentally unstable or an ex-con. The name he chose at GA is 'Victim'. That speaks volumes!

There you see the complains, the threats, some mildly veiled, like "I have been looking into you". Some he jumps right to DMCA complaints and threats of copyright infringement. The same type of threats used at WoV to convince Mike to shut me down.

And btw, concerning Shackleford and my banning, Norm has repeatedly used this line "Mike has publicly stated that I never asked that KJ be banned". That is true. Mike has publicly stated that. Problem is that he privately stated just the opposite. I have recently proved that by showing, Mike's untouched PM's. That is my whole dispute concerning Wizard! That Mike is not being honest, undoubtedly because he is afraid of Norm and all this kind of "garbage" that goes along with Norm. All the threats, and filing of complaints. In a word all the bullying that is Norm!

So Shackleford chose to be dishonest and piss off one single person, who he thought would go quietly into the night....me. Makes perfect sense now, doesn't it? You sort of feel bad for Mike. I feel bad for Mike. Mike's good friend Norm, put him between a rock and a hard place. Boot KJ and be dishonest publicly about it or suffer the 'wrath of Norm'....all the threats, and filing of complaints, threats of legal action.....all the bullying!

One more interesting this about that wording that Norm has used over and over...."Mike has publicly stated that I never asked that KJ be banned". He isn't saying that he never asked that KJ be banned. He is saying Mike has publicly stated...he never asked that KJ be banned. There is a big difference. I have been begging for Michael Shackleford to come clean and be a man and stand up and finally tell the truth. Norm kind of just revealed it for him.

And finally, since RWM was brought into this. RWM is a great guy. A pillar of our community. He is one of those guys that if you wrote down 2% of things he said and shared and read no other books or references, you would have everything you need to be successful in this field. It is true that Munchkin, volunteered as a moderator at Norm's site. I think he wanted to try to help the site be something positive. It is also true that he is no longer a moderator. I would be interested to know why, although I suspect, he would never say. Not only is he no longer a moderator, but he rarely, extremely rarely posts. It's sort of reading between the lines, but does that tell you what RWM, now thinks of Norm and Norm's site and handling of his site?

Again, another look into the Evil, lying, bullying and really, really scary mind that is Qfit/Norm Wattenberger.

 

I applaud the admin's posting of this. While just like my posting of screenshots of private conversations, on the surface, it seems a kind of low thing to do. And in most cases it is. But when a person, publicly lies over and over and over about a subject or incident, I think we have every right to expose that person.....to get to the truth. The truth is all I ever wanted.

 

Another interesting thing. Notice the date that this exchange between Norm (victim) and Administrator began. May 26, 2016.

While I technically joined this site in June, 2015 and made one single, post, I largely forgot about the site and had no interest or reason to post. But after Mike Shackleford himself directed me here to participate in a thread criticizing him and WoV, I returned and made my initial post in the WoV thread (technically my second post on the site), on.....May 25, 2016.

I have been saying that since he banned me at his site, Norm has been trolling me to other sites, demanding and using his influence to shut me down. This exchange between Norm and the admin, proves my point. For all practical purposes, I began posting here May 25, 2016. Norm begins threatening, and demanding the administrator to shut me down on May 26, 2016. Un-FUCKING BELIEVABLE! What a F-ing Troll!

And this insight that the admin just shared shows yet another site, an another administrator that refused to cave to Norm's demand. So far only one very weak, site owner/administrator, wasn't man enough to stand up to Norm...one...Michael Shackleford. Shame on you Wizard.

 

What a pathetic old piece of shit Norm is. Hey Norm, send me an email so I can post it here as well you gutless fuck. Then you can waste time and money chasing me through the courts. What a loser you are!

 

Norm makes a lot of good points.

I sensed alot of tap dancing from admin.

neither QFIT nor Kewlj are above being petty.

but then again the admin can join their club.

Norm sees selective moderation and doesnt want to put himself in the middle of that

Some people are "cited" with banners, some arent for similar activity, some are moved to other less traveled areas of the site some arent

and when there are complaints of unfairness or playing favorites....we get "i cant read everything" as if 20 minutes a day wouldnt solve that problem

Norm sees the climate and doesnt accept it like I do.

to each his own

meanwhile in about 12 years, if the rate of growth continues....this site will hit its goal in 12 more years and that pile of money will be distributed.

 

Norm and his point about antisemitism

the admin retorted that the person who was continually spouting antisemitism wasdispatched by members.

THIS IS TRUE

but it took many many many months...maybe close to a year to get rid of the guy..to get him to go away on his own

So during that time..if someone like Norm visted this site./..they woi;d view an antisemite spewing hatred and members using him as a punching bag.

not exactly a pleasant site to view in the name of "no censorship"

So Norm makes a point. Unlike me...he is a person who doesnt want to go to a site and have to shout down antisemitism in the name of free speech.
For me..i didnt mind using the dude as a punching bag
But there are others who dont want to see that shit.

So the admin has to ask himself in that case.....where will i lose more people from this site
1- if they come here and see allowed antisemitism
2- if the come here and see no antisemitism(because of mederation)

how many people will come here and say..."i dont see antisemitism... there is nothing here for me..i am running away
how many people will come here and see antisemitism and say "i dont need the drama".i am leaving

Norm obviously came, and saw, and was disgusted....and left.

maybe others have as well

 

So it appears I have received an email from the deranged ball of BO as well. I received it a few days ago but it was sent straight to the junk folder. Quite appropriate. It's like hotmail knows who the fuckwit is as well!

I will be posting a screen shot of his email here shortly. I will also be replying to this and any further emails via this forum since it is not hard to find out the location of a person from a sent email. Sorry Norm but you won't get me that way you stupid old cunt!

 

The administrator was actually being kind to Norm, by not revealing all that he could have.

For instance, in the second message by the administrator, the administrator says "Of course you are free to contradict him by replying to him (meaning me) but we cannot censor him by removing his posts since we don't know you or him or the truth".

For the administrator to say "but we can not censor him by removing posts", means that somewhere, prior to this correspondence that we are seeing there was a demand by Norm to either ban me or remove my posts. This is important to me because Norm has repeatedly stated, on his site, at WoV and in emails, that he never asked any administrator to ban or censor me. For dramatic emphasis, several times, he has even added that he swears this on his mother's grave.

So what we are seeing is the administrator "No" response to that demand. We aren't really seeing the demand. But does anybody, now doubt that he did. And if he did that here one day after I started posting her, is there really any doubt that he also made these same demands of Mike Shackleford at WoV?

I don't know the consequences of swearing something on your mother's grave that isn't true. Hopefully no consequences to Mrs Wattenberger and she can continue to rest in peace.

 

Not surprising at all. THIS is Norm's legacy. He feuds and fights and demands, and threatens and bullies and files complaints. It has been going on for years....even decades. I can't say that I am not happy that he has revealed himself, confirming what I have been saying for a year, but at the same time, I feel very sad for him. I really do.

 

I feel like in the last week, with me posting screen shots of conversations with Mike and Norm and today the administrator posting Norm's correspondence, that nearly everything I claimed since arriving at this site, has been proven true. I know those that dislike and blame me, won't acknowledge it. But it's all there!

Mike's PM stating that "Norm demand he take action" and "that after all Norm had done for him, he couldn't say No".

Mike's PM stating that he "concedes that working out the truce and enforcing it was done out of favoritism to Norm".

The administrator's releasing proof that Norm threatened them and demanded they ban, censor and remove posts. Is there really any doubt these same threats and demands weren't made to Mike Shackleford, just as they were at several other sites?

I am going to say it one more time: Norm (qfit) came to a site (WoV) that he hadn't participated at in 5 years, and demanded, threatened, bullied the owner/administrator, Mike Shackleford, to shut me down and ban me, a member in good standing who had participated positively for 4 years.....just because I had a negative opinion of Qfit and his site. And a weak Michael Shackleford, unwilling to stand up to the bully, gave into those demands. Shackleford is the only site owner/administrator out of at least 4 that Qfit tried to bully, that allowed himself to be bullied. END of STORY!

Case proven. I know it doesn't change much. No apology. No acknowledgement from Mike. I don't return to WoV. I don't get my reputation back. I deserve better than this but I won't get it. The hater's still hate and blame me. I am still the bad guy. Now that I have been proven right, the blame just switches to that I wouldn't let this go and move on. But at least everyone else knows, what I, and Mike and Norm have known all along....the truth. Those that dislike me or have a bone to pick, will not acknowledge it....but they now know.

 

Ok here is the joke of an email I got:









And my reply via this forum:

**********

Dear Stinky Cunt,

Glad to hear from you Norm. Apologies for the delayed reply but as I mentioned, your email was directed straight to the junk mail folder which it has to be said is quite appropriate given its author and content.

Let's address your concerns in a simple one by one:

You're not sure why I have posted so many rants about you? Apart from the obvious question of what kind of poor, pathetic, thin-skinned individual would consider anything I've ever written about you up to this point to be a "rant", your definition of "so many" would suggest that your math ability is very selectively engaged. Care to tell me how many posts I've made that even mention you? Didn't think so.

Blah blah blah United States constitution blah blah Supreme Court blah blah privacy blah blah fucking blah! The bottom line is the emails that kewlj posted contain nothing of any intellectual merit whatsoever and the only reason you would give a fuck about them being posted is because they make you look like the pathetic shit stain that you are. Spin it about copyright and privacy etc etc as much as you like but everyone knows the real reason.

If you're that concerned about it then engage an attorney and sue kewlj (and now myself). You won't do it because you don't actually care enough and/or don't want to be embarrassed when the judge tells you what a pathetic old fuck you are. Got a link to any legal cases where a vindictive old stink ball successfully sued for breach of copywrite on a couple of abusive emails he made the mistake of sending?

Yeah yeah kewlj is full of shit and you are telling the truth. We've heard it all before asswipe. The truth is somewhere in the middle no doubt but please don't make the mistake of thinking anyone believes your load of crap story about not asking for him to be banned. The admin here has already shown your true character beyond any doubt as did kewlj in the PMs from Shackleford. He edited the PMs I hear you say (to a roar of laughter from the crowd)? Um no he didn't. The rest of that paragraph is just the same garbage that any number of people have been calling bull shit on for years. Keep blabbering numbnuts, no one believes you.

You want to give me advice? How thoughtful. Here's some advice from me: start showering twice a day and giving you under arms a spray every now and then. The one time I was unfortunate enough to be in the same room as you I could smell you from 15 feet away!

Feel free to reply to this email at [email protected] or even directly on this forum if you ever grow a set of testicles. Or don't reply at all, I don't give a fuck.

Kind regards,
Beached Whales Clitoris

******

 

Thank you for sharing that BWC. Further insight into the troubled person that is Qfit/Norm Wattenberger. It is really very, very sad.

So many things I could comment on, but in light of everything that has transpired, I don't feel the need, with one exception:

"and now admitted that his harassment of Mike was so severe that Mike had to call the police on him".

NEVER, ever, did I admit this because it did not happen! Not in this universe.....not in whatever alternative universe, Norm resides in. I have personally informed Norm, this is a blatant lie. Exoter has publicly on Norm's site twice stated this never occurred. And to his credit, Mike Shackleford, contacted Norm and informed him this did not occur.

Mike did contact the police or so he says, because he felt threatened by something MickeyCrimm said and later retracted and apologized for. Had absolutely nothing to do with me. Yet Norm continues to attempt to assassinate my character with this lie that Mike himself told Norm was untrue. That is the level of dishonesty, I continue to deal with. Norm Wattenberger/Qfit is "pure evil...right through to his core".

 

How am I guilty RS?

I did not demand, bully, threaten Mike Shackleford to ban Norm and remove his posts.
I did not demand, bully, threaten the administrators at BJ21 to ban Norm and remove his posts.
I did not demand, bully, threaten the administrators at 2+2 Poker Forums to ban Norm and remove his posts.
I did not demand, bully, threaten the administrators here at GamblingForums to ban Norm. (no posts to remove)

But Qfit/NormWattenberger demanded, bullied and threatened all of these administrators, demanding that they silence me...simply because I have an opinion that several members that dominate and control his site are frauds and intentionally misleading other players/members. As a blackjack AP, I have a right to voice that opinion, and quite frankly it has been proven to be true that these guys are full of shit, and you know that.

So exactly how am I guilty here?

 

Its interesting that Norm complains to Admin about taking information down and not being able to defend ones self, when Norm extended my 2 week ban to Lifetime because I told him that in two weeks I'd be back to mention that the link I posted was not a "scam site", and then proceeds to talk about me on his forum, in private, yet screams about legalities while trying to do just the same to myself.

I'm fairly certain at this point I could actually make a case for Slander/Libel with Norm, and lord knows I certainly have the money to do so. He's moved himself into an almost manic position trying to prove to everyone that he's right and "everyone else" is wrong,

I myself have never been convicted in any way of a crime as an adult, had to spend a night in "Juvi" for slamming the door in the principals office when I was 14 though. I'm clearly the hardened criminal and all around bad guy Norm has been painting me in a corner with, while pretending I'm defending guys like ZG and MM who have actually done bad things in their lives (sorry Zen).

I'm certainly guilty of being argumentative, and at times disruptive because I believe that there's a general respect that needs to be passed around from individual to individual on a forum, regardless of status. An example of this was my banning at WoV which Norm tried to smear me with. Anyone who was around when that happened, knows that I was irritated by being censored and went out of my way to accuse the moderator censoring me, for censorship. Because I made a second account to post that information on, while also requesting that all of my forum posts be removed, it was then decided that I instead be forum "Nuked".

Not surprisingly, Norm goes out of his way to be very lax on paid forum members and all around "Friends" of the forum, so when I accuse two of his members of forum violations, he instead tries to turn it all on me. Going further, threatening me for asking him to clarify his position on KJ and ZG, which then became center focus of his entire argument, ignoring my commentary and responses on the larger subject matter (in my opinion).

Not being one to be threatened by anyone, much less some dweeby keyboard jockey who has never once in his life been accused of being an AP, I'm going to speak my mind as I always have my entire life. I have zero regard for being "polite" when I"m accused of something, and I have zero time for bullshit, as I said in my email to him. I've always been an honest and upfront individual when speaking with others, as I always expect back in return from them.

Having said that, I think its abundantly clear on both forums that Norm has completely overreacted to a request to remove his admin edit of "scam link", where this all started, and it has since opened up a giant can of worms for him, as this certainly has to go down as one of the most embarrassing public displays of lies and bullshit the AP community has seen from one if its "Treasured" own. At least the worst I've seen or had a moderate interest in. I knew things were fishy with how Norm always acted with the same demeanor with regards to KJ, MM, and ZG, and I certainly felt a coming wave of bullshit when I started reviewing the information KJ had posted about Norm, and I found it very ironic (even remarked back to Norm about it) that I was being treated in the same manner that KJ had been, and that ZG had once told me about.

Accused of making enemies (very few), and making no friends (the public outreach via that Email I had posted has been just astounding), it would seem that we have now come to a conclusion. In doing so, I'd like to note a few things. First, location of the Website aside, it wouldn't have mattered if we were in the United States or not, the Email falls completely under fair use. Secondly, Norm stated in that "record straightening" of yours, Admin, that I had edited the conversation in some way, which is an outright lie. I literally copy and pasted the entire conversation including time stamps. If need be, I can take actual screenshots to confirm the fact that ONCE AGAIN, Norm is caught lying about the details of his accusations. Thirdly, this all stemmed from what I felt was a simple request, to edit the administrative edit he made when removing the discord link I had provide, that said, "scam site". I felt it was a simple and honest request, and I felt I was very straightforward and polite (to a degree) with Norm while making my request.

Lastly, I know there's going to be those diehard "Norm supporterss", much like "Hillary supporters" after she lost the election, and they'll want to lash out or slander/libel their way around the privacy of Norm's forum, and I'm completely okay with that. I'm even okay if it happens here in regards to myself. I'm not one to take action, legally speaking, unless its a serious matter. I'm not looking to call the police or involve the courts. In reality, despite the fact that this affair absolutely destroys Norm and his claims, I wish everyone well, even the few enemies I've made. None of this ever needed to get this far out of hand, but I think the Community has certainly done a fantastic job working together to get to "the bottom" of this one, and I sincerely hope it doesn't go any further than it has. I hope everyone just takes a step back and just takes it all in and realizes that this was a mishandled situation from the very start, and in the future people strive to handle things more appropriately, without the accusations, the tempers, the drama, and the childish threats. At the end of the day, we're all adults, and we're all on the same side of the table, and sometimes that gets lost on the forum.

 

Yes, there are people who are full of shit, they are frauds and are misleading players. But that has nothing to do with my post.

Are you not trying to assassinate the character of Qfit and/or Wizard? That was a rhetorical question, for which the answer is an undoubted "yes - absolutely". You've been going after Wizard for a year or so now, and Qfit even longer. I've yet to see Qfit bring you up as the subject on his forum...and whenever someone does bring up the "KJ subject", he would respond and/or try to shut down the attacks against you.

There's a phrase I can't remember right now, but goes something like, "If you wanna play with the big dogs, you might get bit."