Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Reading that, then casting back how he expected members of a forum to contribute to paying his mortgage, keep his kids in private school, food on the table while secretly negotiating a 6 figure sale. That requires a certain level of arrogance, bare-faced cheek and disdain of others, yet people still defend and stick up for him (as well as doing his bidding for free).

 

I'm not saying he had some grand plan. I'm saying that things headed in this direction and he went along for the ride.

 

"while secretly negotiating a 6 figure sale"

Actually, it was a SEVEN figure sale: $2,300,000.00, or so it was claimed.

Regardless, he never should have waved his tin cup.

 

I donated exactly $0. And said so on the forum.

Caught hell for it too. Fuck those guys.

I feel sorry for those that donated. It takes a special kind of stupid to do that. Dumb as fuck.

 

On the subject of the Wiz waving his tin cup:





The Wiz posted, on this very subject:

_____________________


"After much thinking and discussions with others, I have swallowed my pride and taken out my tin cup. If you look at the bottom of the site, just to the right of my name, you'll see a link that says "Donate." That will lead you to this page. Similar buttons appear on my Odds and Macau sites.

The last time I was in financial trouble and asked for donations the number of people in the entire world that made one was two. I'm hoping to beat that record this time.

I take this step because revenue is down about 65% from its all time high. Effective August 1, I will no longer be exclusive to Bodog/Bovada and will go back to a multiple-advertiser model, for the first time in several years. I will also be putting more of an emphasis on Internet gambling on my Odds site, which should bring in eyeballs that will convert to paying customers better. Nevertheless, I have a history of making bad business decisions and this change may be yet another one.

Future changes aside, through the years many have told me that they wished to support my sites financially but had no intention of ever gambling on the Internet. This option is now possible. If you've enjoyed any of my sites, and never clicked through my banners to become a paying customer, now is your chance to return the favor.

Thank you for your consideration.

For those who have read this appeal and still won't donate, the question for the forum is why not?"

____________________

"Why not?"

I'll fucking TELL YOU why not.

Because I owe you nothing.

Because I refuse to give money to beggars.

Because you made money off the board, and shared none of it with the posters: "Why not?"

"Why not," indeed: wow, what chutzpah!

 

I love playing Devil's Advocate, and it looks like MrV will give me a game =) Just a curiosity question first; why such animosity? Too much time in Portlandia got you fed up with beggars? I get the distaste, but the intensity's got me curious.

Anyways...

The negativity directed Mike's way over the "tin cup" is understandable to a point. I, too, am far too proud and look down on just about any charity, so those that wave their cup often get derision from me (maybe "derision" is a bit too harsh, but you know what I'm saying). I spent all of 2015 living off $15k a year which included taking care of my son of whom I have custody, and I took not a penny. More than one WoV / DT member knew of my plight and offered straight cash without me asking; I turned every offer down. I didn't take out a loan, open a credit card, apply or receive any TANF or SNAP or welfare of any kind. I did borrow about eight hundo from mama and repaid it in a month, and borrowed another $1,400 from Pop's who just said keep it, but that's all the help I would accept. My life, my decision, my mistake... I'll fucking fix it.

But it doesn't seem to be a general dislike of beggary that's got y'all fired up. It's the fact that he had a sale in the works that took your general dislike and turbo charged it into the realm of hatred and malice. And that just seems odd to me.

I'm not a man who has much, so when I got in my pinch, there wasn't a TON for me to worry about. My truck was about paid off, so I had no transportation worries. I live in my childhood home that Pop's keeps as an escape pod, so I had no mortgage or fears of foreclosure. I have no business(es), other than my "man with a van" handyman bullshit, which has no building or payroll or upkeep whatsoever, so that wasn't an issue. About the only things I had to worry about was my financial credit (not paying bills) and losing my race team.

I spoke much about the struggle. About how impossible my job search was going, how I was down to eating just two meals per week, how to DIY my own medical procedures. These conversations were ultimately what led to members offering financial assistance. Well, I'm a fighter, so I got by. I managed to pick up 2-4 days a month at the post office. I managed to piece together odd jobs here or there. I managed to get a spot in USAHockey and started reffing games. And little by little, I put together a bunch of little things that at least made me even. I kept pushing and suddenly it broke. A gal went down at the PO and so, literally overnight, I had more hours than I knew what to do with. I went straight from lamenting my situation and describing my horrible plight, right into working 100+ hour weeks, 7 days a week, for over a month and a half. And that was just the PO! I never stopped the extra man with a van shit, I kept on reffing and got even more games per week. I don't think it was a full calendar month from my last boo-hoo session before I started posting about building race cars again.

Now, imagine if I had taken the charity offered. "Boo-hoo Face can't even eat, I give him $100, Steve-Dave gives $100, fucking Billy Ray got him a grand! Now he's building race cars?! Fuck that, that's my car! Fuck him, that sneaky piece of shit!" It would have been a damn bad look. And the only thing I would have been guilty of was being in the right place at the right time for a coworker to go down.

That was my view regarding Wiz. Kids in private, WoV and WoO which are part of his life's work and I imagine he has great pride and care for... he felt he had to protect them, even if it meant shitting on his own pride. And maybe he had that deal in the works, maybe it was even nearing completion. So what? Were I in a position where my kid and/or life's work / passion were in danger, I'd not relax until they were out of danger completely. I might have an estate check "in the mail" from a long lost, but unless it's cash in my hand, I don't stop. Some things are too important.

That's all, just had to Devil up some Advocate. I'd advise you to burn one and relax, but any man who burns AND has a Ferrari is someone who I should be receiving advice from, not issuing it to =p

 

Knowing your plight and the precious time that you have chosen to give away from free (how exactly do you moderate a board while working 100+ hours per week and looking after a child BTW), to keep the wheels churning and the dollars rolling in for the affiliation empire, I trust you were well rewarded for all the effort

 

Fisk:

I do not hate or have actual malice toward the Wiz.

I rather like the guy.

But this tin cup thing he did frosts my cookies, especially when he threw in a rhetorical "Why Not?"

Egad: what nerve!

"Why not?"

Trying to manipulate the faithful with guilt: gee, that reminds me of my Catholic upbringing.

Oh well, wicked world.

But enough about him.

Yes, I do have this thing against panhandlers.

Beggars are thick as fleas on a coon dog's ass up here in Portland, and to tell you the truth I am fucking sick of them.

Why does it bother me so?

I'll tell you why.

Because it's a black eye for America.

I never saw these fuckers lining the offramps, clogging the sidewalks, publicly begging for money when I was a kid.

Back then church and family took care of their own: not anymore.

It's proof positive that America has started down the slippery slope of The Great Decline, and I hate to see that happen: these losers are the point men leading the way into Oblivion.

But I can still find humor in it all.

Like yesterday, walking down the sidewalk, a bum accosted me, asking "Do you have a few dollars?"

I smiled, and said "Why, yes, as a matter of fact I do."

He then smiled, and asked: "Can I have a few?"

I returned the smile, then said "NO!" and walked off.

Yeah, I know I'm an ...

 

FACE FACE FACE...you had me until the last quote.
You just got through telling us how you got odd jobs and pieced together a living. And that is great. You are young but have the same values of people older than you....like me. Back in the day when I was young, if someone got into big credit card debt(or any kind of debt)....they would get a second or third job and dig out of the hole and yes even sacrifice.....yes a word people dont understand.. Now they contact a company that will negotiate a pennies on the dollar payment plan...while they keep their same lifestyle not needing to cut back on anything.

So why couldnt manboy get a job flipping burgers at night and swallow his pride that way. Begging is so much easier. Or get a seasonal job at UPS or Macys during christmas time. For the same reason alot of the lazy fucks that MrV sees daily wont do it.....its easier to beg.

 

And to make matters worse....as the sale became more and more a reality.....he never took down the post asking for money telling us how and where to send it. Even after the contracts were signed he didnt think to cancel his request for money. It wasnt until it became public, and people started asking about the donations that he offered to return them.

I responded to his "why not" and got 30 days. At the time Mr V defended my post saying it didnt come out of thin air......his question was "asked and answered".....with "bluntness" being the only possible complain.

 

that is part of it. And no doubt that was the start of it. But as I saw more and more people mis-treated, I became more and more vocal, without talking about myself...and just being an advocate of my neighbors.This thread would have gotten very old if the first 50 pages was all about ME ME ME whining ABOUT me me me. The thread would have died quickly. But once people say tat it wasnt about a single person crying "woe is me".....the views picked up and remained strong for many many months as the most viewed thread on this site...even before QFIT set in motion action that made this thread even more popular.

Of course there is a personal nature to it. Fuck, do you think Michael J Fox would be this big advocate parkinsons research ,,,,if he didnt have the disease. Or Mary Tyler Moore with Diabetes. Life is filled with self serving "causes". But now that Fox and Moore are knee deep iinto supporting their "cause".....do most people say "fuck you.....you are only in it for yourself".I guess some do....and it goes with the territory. But it doesnt wipe out the fact that those charities have forged some success in research of those disease states with the extra money generated.
Well this thread has forged some change as well. Might be minor. Might be temporary. However definitely something for the better.

 

I dont think you ever felt your child was entitled to be in private school.
And I dont think that you of all people feel that making sacrifices to get through tough financial times is beneath you. We are not talking about his children missing meals are we? Maybe doing without cable, or dinners out? That seems to be expected steps before begging comes into place.
And with the money he collected he was able to gamble with it......see below
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/19177-wizards-craps-challenge/

His business was failing to the point where he had to beg, yet he could sponser a craps challenge.

His business was failing to the point of begging while the most traffic on his board was a thread discussing peoples punishment on the suspension list. While his attitude remained....dont let the door hot you on the way out. So that thread didnt tell him something? That people were unhappy?
He didnt try to learn from it or change from it or demand change from his mods? Keep things the status quo........while rome burns?
He made no effort to make changes, tell people that they are right and he will try to do better. He instead gleefully proclaimed that he suspends based on his "bad moods". And he created the climate where he was failing.

So I answered his question of why not.....saying something like....you are like a guy who sets his house on fire and then complains that he doesnt have the money to pay for the water damage from the fire dept.

basically saying you personally created this......so dont come crying to me. Especially with the "dont let the door hit you" attitude

 

And he also proclaimed that he does not make good business decisions

So a guy [proclaims that and holds out his hand for money?

Your kididng

 

MrV,

Everything you have stated here is speculation. Can I ask how you know that the new owners are satisfied with the arrangement and return on their investment so far? And how do you know that WoV just came along for the ride?

I would like to remind you that this same company, LCB also purchased Stanford Wong's BJ21 site earlier this year. BJ21 is only a message board site. There is no other part of the sale where BJ21 was just a "throw-in" along for the ride. So they apparently were interested in the message board in that case. So, I don't know how you can be so sure and state as you have more than once now, that LCB has little interest in the WoV part of the deal?

It's still very early in the process but participation at the BJ21 message board has almost come to a halt. Since the sale, it is slower than it has ever been. By your logic, they are not interested in the members that post on the site, the real value, the "real important people are the lurkers". Guess what....BJ21 has no lurkers. It is a paid membership site, so one can not lurk. So you can throw that argument out the window.

BTW the paid memberships at BJ21 are declining rapidly. It is a bit hard to tell just how rapidly, because there are two separate membership options, a 3 month option and a year option. Most members are on the year option and so only a fraction of those memberships have come up for renewal, but all indications are these paid memberships are not being renewed anywhere close to previous levels.

I don't pretend to know what LCB's plans or expectations are or were or whether they are satisfied with there return on investment so far (and neither do you). The only data we do have access to is that participation at both these sites have declined significantly since both were sold to LCB and in the case of BJ21, there is actually a revenue stream, in reoccurring memberships that is in serious decline.

 

thank you

 

posters on message boards and the lurkers they attract on wov represent people who visit repeatedly in a day or certainly in a week.
The other features on wov bring people there once a year to read a review if they are going to vegas .a hotel review, a show review. Maybe it attracts people if they are visiting vegas and want to read rules of a game.
But for every day visits...its the message board that is the draw.
If posters stop posting, the lurkers drop off....and a group of potential "banner clickers" go away. And if "banner clickers" go away, then income goes away.

hence , if the posters get disgusted by poor customer service, and go to the message board across the street......income will be lost.
Now how much income will be lost is something I or MrV cant know. But for business people who have an income generating asset that costs them no extra money to maintain......any lost income from it is significant. If the message board was not significant for them, they would close it and have manboy spend the extra time doing more videos and articles.
After 2 years, it seems to still be open, so I can only assume there is a positive cashflow from it.

 

I've viewed Wong's board, for free, on and off for years, as I am sure many, many others have.

The FREE board, that's what I'm talking about.

Anyway, of course I am giving you my opinion as to LCB wanting WoO as opposed to its ugly sister, WoV; I don't recall the new owner ever weighing in on the subject, so I run with what I see, and can find.

It only makes sense.

Compare website traffic estimates:

WoO: 350K / month

http://www.trafficestimate.com/wizardofodds.com

vs.

WoV: 125K / month

http://www.trafficestimate.com/wizardofvegas.com

WoV may not be chopped liver, but it wasn't the golden ring LCB was reaching for.

 

Just for shits and giggles, here's GF:

http://www.trafficestimate.com/gamblingforums.com

BTW, I was a bit surprised that WoV had as high a number as it did.

 

They pay writers.

 

You were mislead ....Seriously, who mislead you? Many so called top gambling experts and other top forum members feel they were mislead when they came here. People were spammed on other forums asking them to be founding members here and whatnot. It made it seem as if this site was owned and ran by a group of the top gamblers searching for more to come join in.

It's changed because of Mike sold it? Go back a few years before he sold it, it seems the same to me. all the same stuff good and bad.
they seem to be adding more content Mike is still analyzing new games. Mike tried to keep it a math and gambling forum as much as possible but that's not what people want.

If you think this site is going to be any better or diffrent than WOV once they start advertising you need to think about that. If this site ever gets as many real members and the popularity as WOV has it will be a mad house. Tolling, name calling and BS will be rampant, It already is.

If its AP talk you seek yo cant have it unconcerned, a good AP site wouldn't allow all the BS that goes on here.

Most gambling sites are declining or being sold. There is very little new stuff left to be talked about. Its the same crap over and over. IE Tipping and dumb betting systems. the most popular threads really have little to do with gambling.

I think you benefited From Wizard of Vegas. You found a place to go after your embarrassing situation and talk about yourself giving you a little popularity support and followers. I assume that helped you get a book deal. It also has helped many others IIRC Romes was just on Dancers show. People have used WOV to help them succeed in the gambling industry, for example, people got help with their table games, made deals formed business partnerships, advertised their stuff etc etc ITS STILL ONE OF THE BEST GAMBLING FORUMS AROUND AND WILL CONTINUE TO LEAD THE WAY.