Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

SPOT ON

 

As if this or any other forum isn't filled with drama queens and attention whores.

 

I said nothing about drama queens or attention whores.

My point was that WoV tries to say it helps people win at gambling with its math angles and AP advice. In reality, the site now makes money via affiliate contracts, which means its supposedly smart gamblers lose. The offshores aren't scared of the collective WoV alleged expertise. Casinos seek it out. I notice you sidestepped this by saying WoV helps people "succeed in the gambling industry." That's a torturous phrase that avoids the fact the site now relies on its members losing when they gamble.


Who do you think benefits more from the existence of WoV -- the people who frequent the site or casinos? WoV doesn't even WANT to help people win gambling. It's at odds with its original alleged mission.

 

The WoV paradox is that you have a site whose supposed raison d'être is to make people better gamblers, and it will now make more money long-term if its members lose.

That's a rare combination of disingenuousness, absurdity, and cynicism. I'm usually a fan of absurd and cynical, so it must be the disingenuousness that gets under my skin.

But as I said earlier, JR Ewing would be proud. Hell, he may be a secret WoV partner.

 

I for one have not argued that WoV is "dying."

Its focus is changing: less AP, more general discussion.

Nothing wrong with that.

The main characters these days over there seem to be more interested in lightweight issues, more bells and whistles than substance.

Fine, life on the boards changes just as the games in the casinos change.

 

Can you give me a date me and some examples of this?

From what I have noticed it seems go go in cycles especially when it comes to trolls like B79. There is always some big controversy someone with a new betting system , someone who claim they are beating -EV games with there system, someone asking about AP and so on. All sites seem to be on the decline. I remember Bob saying there was once a golden age where gambling forums were all the rage. Obvious if gambling forum are down across the board it would make sense that AP and gambling talk would go down.

 

I had in mind the loss of quality AP / wannabe AP posters, guys like AoS and KJ.

Heck, even Aaron Hightower.

No one with their passion and knowledge has stepped up to replace them.

The paradox with your argument that interest in gambling forums is down is that interest in gambling itself has been going up, with new casinos popping up regularly.

The lack of interest in serious gambling discussions in light of the increase in gambling leads to a sad conclusion, i.e. most people feel that there is little to discuss; just plop your ass in front of a machine, put in some money, push a button and zone out.

 

Yikes...I am almost afraid to ask whether I am the AP or wanna be AP.

But I don't think that is really fair to AoS. I don't think he tried to portray himself as a wannabe AP. He was pretty honest about what he was....a gambler, (the fact that he plays speed count proves that...). I think all he wanted to do was share his gambling experiences.

I personally found AoS's reports interesting as well as entertaining. It was a window into betting levels that I don't play and what kind of perks you can get playing those levels. There is a type of advantage play that is about playing a break even game and raking in all the comps and perks for a profit and/or free vacations (including airfare). I think that is what AoS may have been shooting for, but I don't think he was there.

I used to network with a guy that had mastered that approach. Playing very high limit blackjack, he played a break even game, but his perks were outrageous. Not only the high end suites, meals and airfare, but very expensive gifts (jewelry, tv's, computers, cruises ect) which he then sold on ebay. He made a pretty nice living doing that. I think things might have tightened up in that you can no longer sell the cruises, but I am not sure how that works.

 

Ahigh left WOV many times and that really had nothing to do with Mike or the over moderation as a matter of fact i feel he would prefer more moderation, at least wen it comes to attacks on him. I think his final decision to leave was mainly based on having to face all is haters after the failure of his company.

AOS, well, it was the lack of suspending a member that finally made him leave. He was always wavering anyways had it had nothing to do with Mike, the over moderation, unfair acts or whatever crap people are crying about.

Same situation with Alan.

Obviously KJ's situation was unique and he was the one who finally knocked himself out at the end with that crazy email.

But hey you now have Bob Dancer if that helps at all. We also now have that crazy Joel guy and his non stop winning craps play. I could probably name a few other guys. At least letsnotwin and his scamming sock-puppet is gone.

One guy i felt should not have been banned was lem66. I don't know why he went all spastic and hard headed, He was strange at times, but he should not have been banned or attacked and baited like he was. I meet the guy in RL he helped me with a small AP job and I took him to a nice steak dinner seemed like an ok guy. It sucks he is gone.

Axiom has been gone for a while now and that was a big loss IMO but that was his own paranoid decision he was basically replaced by Romes.

 

You know what Axel...go fuck yourself! This is fucking bullshit! You want to paint yourself as objective, but you are anything but. You have your nose so far up Mike's ass that I am embarrassed for you.

You guys from WoV want to come here and defend Mike, like he has done nothing wrong. Mike's initial handling of this situation was 100% wrong. He first put restrictions, then suspended, then banned a regular, contributing, 4 year, 3200 post, member of the site, for no other reason than a friend of his wanted him to. A friend of his that does not even participate on the site. Mike even stated that he handled it poorly and that I actually broke no rules.

Mike's initial handling of the situation is what lead to everything else. What I said 3 months later.....3 fucking months later....is almost irrelevant. Mike should have stood up an fixed the situation that he created with a horrible and unjust decision, long before I became so frustrated that I started getting angry.

Where is the outrage of that. You want to give him a pass on that. As a matter of fact when others like Ron C brought up the issue, here is the 'supportive' post that you made: "KJ who? Out of sight, out of mind." So fuck you Axel. Don't come here pretending to give a shit about me.

 

1BB gone, gr8 (not disagreeing) gone without breaking any rules.

 

Seconded

 

I agree with the others.

C'mon Axel- why are you always sucking Wizard's cock? And BeachedFuckingWhale's cock too?

 

If you google blackjack, craps, roulette, keno, video poker etc., the Wizard of Odds will be on the first page of links. The vast majority of those that click those links are not the sharpest gamblers in the world. They are the ones that LCB is enticing to click a banner ad once they get on WOO. So what if they learn how to play craps, roulette, or whatever. They still aren't going to win on the online gambling sites unless they get very lucky, even then many of them will blow the money back. It's the same as in a brick and mortar casino.

WoV is a different kind of traffic. Lots of regulars, sharper gamblers. So not much money to be made there.

And in the case of poker you would hope that the kid turns out to be a wiz, playing 20 tables for 8 hours a day since you are going to get a chunk of what the kid gets raked off for.

 

All I'm going to say is I respect Axel and I also respect you for what you do as a player. But Axel is right, almost anyone would have done what Mike did after your email. Saying FU to Axel is the kind of attitude that ended any chance of coming back. I hope you see this for what it is. Or you can bash me too and accuse me of being Mike's boy.

 

Either a whiz or a trust fund

Either a whiz or a trust fund degenerate. I'm a cynic. I've been around the block a few times, and I think the latter is about a hundred times more likely than the former. Again, the site is better served with people losing. No way around it.

 

FWIW, KJ, when I used the term "wannabe AP" I had only Aaron in mind.

 

The gambling site has it's butt covered on the bonuses because they are included in the up front expenses before the affiliate starts getting his cut.

 

Easy. I didn't lol. I'd pop in a few times a week after 1900 on DT to bitch and rant, but that was all the online stuff I did, period. From Turkey day til Feb, my WoV time involved maybe reading 1 or 2 threads per day with probably no moderating whatsoever.

As for rewarded, I couldn't even begin to list all the ways. Compensation comes in many more forms than just cash.

Thanks a ton for your reply. Seeing into the reason behind people's stances is often illuminating, and most times awesome.

I took that differently (to the surprise of no one). I read it as an honest question. Not a guilt trip or a "wtf is your problem", but as a way to inform him of ways he hasn't succeeded. Granted, I'm an oddball that prefers critique to compliments, so that likely colored the way I interpreted that question.

And for what it's worth, I don't find you an asshole. Seeing your reasons makes it all make complete sense. If something pisses you off, AND strikes at the core of your values, AND you have to be struck every fucking day, yeah, that would make one adopt a zero tolerance.

Question answered and answered well. Thanks for that.

Yeah, I do follow the ways of the old world. I'm of the age to have had two working parents, so much of my raising was by my born-in-the-30's grandparents. A majority if not a totality of my values are from that day. Kind of sucks when you think there is nothing stronger than your word and a handshake in this day and age, and I've gotten fucked over and out more than once. But, it's definitely the way I prefer to live, and how I try to comport myself in my day to day. It's why I'm drawn to and ally myself with guys like EvenBob. All you old fucks are the only ones who make any sense to me =)

And no, I don't think my kid is entitled to private school. I don't think he OR I are entitled to much of anything, other than the freedoms granted to us by existing. I'm not here to defend Wiz's beggary; I don't condone it. It's not something I would easily submit to myself, and I'd fight a lot longer, harder, and lose a whole lot more before it ever came to that point for me.

It was just the intensity that had me curious because, again, I was looking from another angle. I'm someone who appreciates what he gets (usually =p) and can find value in trash. I've made it no secret that WoV and its members have given me more than I could possibly repay. My moderation is the only way I could think to repay, and is why I volunteered a few years back. And I know I told Wiz that whole schpiel about wanting to give back. All that made me think...

What if I had more? What if I had a "thing"? Maybe fire up a YouTube channel of DIY projects, or an amateur fishing show, or something of that nature. I do it because I love it, and I gain an audience. It grows and grows and now it's its own community. People come to watch, converse, just as any other forum. I could monetize it somehow, maybe, but I like having it free of ads, I like having it free to view, I just dig the event. Now, suddenly, I get whacked with financial hardship. I really SHOULD monetize it and fill my channel with ads, but damn, ad free is a feature I really like, as do my "friends". I really SHOULD make it a subscription, it's pretty popular. But damn, I really don't want my baby to be like that. I love the easy access to all, I like what I have made. But fuck, I'm in a pinch, and this is a possible way out. Fuck it, I know. I won't fill it with ads, won't make it subscription, I'll just ask. I'll give the OPTION. I get to stay ad free, get to stay free for all, and maybe enough of my bigger fans will voluntarily and generously supply me with what I need.

In that case, I WOULD do that. In that case, it's not me begging for money. I've done work. The fact that I've previously submitted that work for free doesn't matter. Fact is it's work, and for work I can with no compunction accept compensation.

I dunno. A look from the other side. I'm done playing DA now =p

 

I respect Axel as an AP. He is very knowledgeable and talented in a wide range of AP techniques. But I am starting to really dislike him as a person. He is all about Axel and that includes kissing Mike's ass. Just once, I would like to hear him stand up and criticize Mike for being wrong about anything. I mean god knows he comes here and does nothing but defend every action that Mike has ever made.

Axel even accepted his own suspension without much argument, when in my opinion, that was another really horrible decision by Mike. He suspended several AP's for flagging a post that unnecessarily exposed an AP opportunity. So he suspended AP's for wanting to protect their opportunities. And he did so by inventing a rule out of thin air about flagging that no one knew or heard of. All AP's on that site should be up in arms about that decision. That decision along with Mike's own exposing of a number of AP opportunities, and I am not talking posting that XXX casino is running a promo....that is OK, but breaking it down, step by step, how to beat each promo, to the point that you even pot how much money the promo is worth to an AP, is just treason. Mike's good friend, Norm Wattenburger (Qfit), in the last year, posted on his own site, that he didn't post at WoV because he didn't trust Shackleford after he went to work for Sands. He didn't trust that Shackleford was really on the side of AP's. I haven't agreed with much that Norm has said in the last year, but that looks to be more and more true almost everyday. Mike Shackleford appears to be no friend of AP's!

I also resent AxelWolf coming here saying things like he came here because of me. As I stated his public support of me has been almost non-existent. While Axel and I aren't buddies, I am not part of his little circle of AP friends, I just expected more support from legitimate AP's than I got. "KewlJ who? Out of mind out of sight". That's not a guy who is supportive or even things much of me. With friends like that, who needs enemies? So I resent Axel being a phony and now pretending to he care about me or about my situation. I respect the guys that come out an say they don't like me, more than I respect Axel in that regard.

Private message, not email, but that is a technicality. I don't see where this private message was the F.U. end all thing that some of you see it as. I didn't threated Mike with personal harm or anything like that. He made a statement that if he allowed me back at WoV (as he seemed to be indicating that he knew he should) that "it would have consequences from his good friend Norm". "He said Norm would turn his attack to Mike rather than me". That is a pretty lame excuse not to fix something you did wrong....because you are afraid of what someone will say.

So I just wanted Mike to know that not fixing the situation would have consequences from me. That I would not let this go, or quietly go away. I would continue to bring it up and remind people how unfair and dishonest Mike was to me in the handling of this situation. Some of you guys seem to view this as some great threat. No threat....I view it as more of a heads up. And I have been true to my word of reminding people how unfair and dishonest he was and will continue to do so every chance I get.

I don't see where me saying anything to Axel on this site has anything to do with anything else. Where is it written that I have to like Axel or that I can't say what I want about him on another site? (I suppose a new rule like that could be made up out of thin air...that is the way things work over there...if no rule was broken....make one up).

You say this like this private message to Mike that some of you guys find so offensive occurred immediately after my banning. This occurred a full 3 moths after I was banned....3 months after I was unjustly banned, while breaking no rules! 3 fucking months! Give me a break with this idea that Mike was trying to work out a way to bring me back. He is the king as he so frequently points out. He didn't need to figure a way. All he had to do was show a little humility and do the right thing and he couldn't bring himself to do that. After 3 months of sitting on the sideline, while having done nothing wrong and having him admit to me that I did nothing wrong, I had every right to start to get annoyed.

It offends me that you would think I would bash you because you post an opinion I don't agree with. (Your wrong...but it is your right to be wrong ) I am more than happy to engage in discussion with someone who is objective and you have been objective, criticizing some of Mike's behaviors as well as supporting others. But I am getting tired of these ass-kiss guys coming over from WoV, defending every move Mike makes as if he is their god.