Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Please do tell

 

Should I be proud or sorrowful that so many default to cynicism and suspicion so readily these days? Bit of a sad commentary on the world today that an attitude such as that is required =/

But maybe if I say it enough...I am here for my own edification, nothing more, nothing less. If you want to talk ulterior motives, yes, I have an urge to defend what I feel needs defending. As I like WoV and a great many of its members, they and it would fall into that category. And I'd argue that true to whatever integrity I have, I have defended it justly. Areas where I know there is defense, like perhaps the issue with time spent on socks, I presented a defense. Areas where I THINK there is defense, like the banning of Gr8, I provide what I THINK is defense. And times I just fuck up, like turning a blind eye toward Buzz, I don't defend at all. Seems fair, righteous, to do so. I'm not saying I'm perfect, and I never will. But if any of the many who have thought or even claimed I'm here for a bit of turnabout or some next-level trolling, just post the evidence. And I mean anywhere. I've been "active" since Xmas of 2010. Find me trolling or misrepresenting or otherwise flaming for kicks. You'll find some contradictions of character, sure. Some views that I perhaps have evolved out of over the years. But you won't find that. As I said, I'm just don't have the impish thread in me. I'm a straight shooter, plain and simple.

And really, I'm not sure if it's I or Larry who should be more offended lol. You saw that I claimed to have been reading him for literal years now, yes? I mean, well before "The Girl" started nixing Larry's many socks. It's been a looong time. Do you really think I'm pompous enough to believe that it will be I who "takes him down"? Or stupid enough to think it can be done, period?

Bitch, please XD I'll admit Larry has pissed me off, not that's not exactly a difficult accomplishment, by calling me fuckface years ago. And thanks to GF, I've been able to address that and we had a decent chat about it. I got to speak my piece, he responded, issue settled. That's as close as I get to "playing", which by every definition I know of, isn't playing at all.

And if you're still not convinced, I'd have to ask you if you think I'm stupid. Just look at what Larry posted. Were I here just to take all the wind out of his sails, why in all the gods names would I have agreed with such critical points of his? Me, a WoV mod, one who seems to garner the respect of most who he deals with, why would I have given him ANYTHING if his destruction was my intention? It ain't that hard to rope-a-dope and weasel out of a solid answer. Ain't that hard to make others have to jump to a conclusion if you don't want to give them one. I didn't do anything of the sort. If I felt he was off base, I presented respectfully exactly why I thought that way. If I thought he was speaking truth, even a painful truth, I did nothing but (figuratively) look him in the eyes and say "Yup, you nailed it".

The only thing you or any other doubter has to work with is the absurdity of me being here, period. Questionable, sure. But as I said with my leading post, I'm a bit of a masochist, and I thought this looked like fun. And goddamn, it sure has been =)

/sigh. Oh, KJ...

Before posting the above, did you ever consider the timeline? I'm not gonna check back to ensure the exact dates, so if you could, gimme a little leeway on that and focus on what I'm trying to say...

My very first exposure to that whole fuckarow was you flipping your ever loving shit on Norm. I told you before I've read every single thing you wrote. Do you remember ever being an asshole for all those four years? I sure don't. Just cool, slick ass KJ, every day for year after year. Someone has a problem with your play? Your winnings? Your lifestyle? Slick ass KJ just agrees to disagree and carries on with his day. So you can understand that my first exposure was like a kick in the dick from behind. I was completely floored and had no idea what to do. All I could do was snap ban just to get it to stop, and then hand it off to Wiz as he knew more than I.

Was it then I was supposed to speak up? I doubt that's what you're saying, so let's continue.

I wasn't all that aware of everything for even several weeks following that. I heard of some weird truce, I saw it got violated, I felt the coming storm. Shit like Norm saying he'll post if he stops getting attacked, but then ceasing posting until he got attacked. That was an area I was quite busy with, despite my apparent lack of action. That went on for a couple weeks. At this time, I only knew a deal had been broken and you were gone because of it. That's it.

Was it then I was supposed to have spoken up? Time wise I think it would have been about the perfect time. What about ability wise? Did I know the history of you two? No, not one detail. Did I know the contents of the deal / truce? Not one thing other than there was one. Did I know of the contents of your correspondence with Wiz, or even that it was happening? Not at all. So though the timing was good, what could I have done other than state "KJ is good and I wish he was here"? That's an opinion, not a defense. I simply had nothing to base a defense on.

How long was it from the time you were banned until I even got here to GF? From the day you got banned until the day I read your side was at least several weeks. I'm guessing around 4 or 5 or so, or about a month. Then, yet a few weeks after that, we all finally got the FULL story, complete with your figurative "go fuck yourself". So from the time a bad thing happened, it took in excess of 6 weeks for me to finally get the full side of 1/3rd of the story. And it was about that time, and do correct me if I'm wrong, that I addressed you and opined that I thought you got a raw deal.

Was it then when I should have spoken up? From a personal standpoint, that was the first time I felt I had the proper info to mount a defense. But if you say "yes", then I'd have to ask you what part of me should have felt like it was the right thing to do? Despite the raw deal, the majority of your posts have been nothing but "Fuck Shack ain't never going back". At the time I got that info, that was your stance. When I opined that I saw your side, that was your stance. You hem and haw a bit about missing the members, sure. You sometimes think out loud as to if you would go or not. But the majority of your posts give me nothing to assume that returning is what you want.

You can't communicate one thing and expect me to understand it as the opposite (unless you're my ex-wife). I'm sorry you're pissed off and even sorrier that it's me you're pissed at, but I have no idea what you expect from me given these facts =/

 

Ask and you shall receive. Robsingerwho.

 

Also, I ask people.....not only "what do expect from Face...but what do you expect from YOUSELF and fellow members.

Face gave his philosophy about Buzz. And it was consistent with KJ. Let Buzz (and I assume same goes for KJ )contact the appropriate person and work it out.
Buz refuses to do so and remains suspended. And KJ actually initiated an exchange that ended with a fuck you type ending....and he remains suspended.
I cant argue with the currents standings of either party.

One party decides to post under different socks and one person does not. That is a personal decision.

However where was KJ when a multitude of posters were mistreated or treated unevenly. Where was he when someone was banned for "allegedly welshing on a bet". Really? Not a peep fronm KJ and from the vast majority of the masses. Where was KJ when the wizard quipped that he would suspend when he was in a bad mood? But not just KJ....where were the masses at least PMing the manboy saying that is not right....at least putting him on notice that he wasnt all supreme and powerfull....he has to answer to his substituents. That climate of "I can do anything I fucking want" by the wiz was allowed by the masses. There are examples all over the place. Yet the masses kept quiet...except for a handful of "trouble-makers" that did comment. Myself, BB1, B9, occasionally Mr V. But in general not the numbers that would cause change.
So all the people crying about KJ........look in the mirror.....did you PM manboy? Did you speak up for your fellow neighbor throughout the years when they were banned and couldnt speak for themselves.
Did you speak against the "dont let the door hit you" philosophy. Did you speak up when I was banned with no reason given...even up to today?

The meek masses drank the koolaide presented to them that they were useless pieces of crap that should be happy to be invited into mikes living room. They were takers and maike was the giver. There was zero value that the posters gave to the site..so just be quiet and let authority do its job.

I have givin this analogy before. It was sort of like the nerdy kid that gets beat up in school and comes home and pulls out a magnifying glass and fries bugs under the sun to let off steam, and quell his "bad mood". Well manboy does the same, he has a magnifying glass called his computer, he pulls up your posts and suspends to quell his bad mood. And no one claimed about that climate...at least publicly ,,,and I diubt privately.

So I would say, stop looking for others to do the things that require backbone ON YOUR BEHALF...if you yourself didnt exhibit the same backbone FOR OTHERS..

 

Great post, Larry. I know it's already been mentioned but everyone should read Pastor Martin Niemoller's "First they came"....Very apropos.

 

and you know what....what a coincidence. Ever since this thread has gotten some interest of mods and munchkins....people have started to get a voice and do the things I suggest. The 'I am mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore" mode.

2 people have already pushed beached whale away and wouldnt stand for her nonsense. Imagine what would happen if someone told her to back off or stand down 6 months ago or a year ago?

So maybe this type of pushback will help avoid some of he future possible inequities in punishment.

But this was not even possible before... without punishment ...without ...."how dare you'..and a suspension

 

So then, is the Wiz a sadist and are his loyal munchkins a bunch of masochists?

 

an egotistical,childish masochistic misogynistic short sighted narcissist leading a dwindling group of munchkins that according to you NEED a male figure to follow.( I just incorporated your definition of munchkin from GG).

 

This is interesting Fisk. You acknowledge that for more than 4 years, I was NOT one of those many members that always seems to be going at it with someone. And that's is correct. I do my thing. If someone wants to not believe I am who I say, that is their right. I generally don't get into a big back and forth with them. That's not my style. I just do my thing and carry on.

SO, when you saw all hell break loose and I was involved in such a scenario, that didn't seem strange to you? Out of character for me? And you didn't find it odd that the other party was a member who had not participated on the site for a period of 5 year an 9 months? That didn't tell you what his intention or agenda really was? I knew because this wasn't unique to WoV. This person (Qfit) had trolled me to other sites, like BJ21 and did the exact same thing.

Ok, so you "handed it off" to Wizard. Now nobody knew at that time that Shackleford had this man crush on Norm (Qfit). He later said he considered Norm a friend, although it really seems to be more of an admiration or respect for a fellow mathematician than an actual friendship. But that's neither here nor there, Shack can define friendship how ever he likes. The point is that you didn't find it odd that Wizard sided with this person who had not made a single post on the site for 5 year and 9 months, until he showed up specifically to engage in war with me?

And when Wizard started suspending me an remember there were 2 suspensions, 3 days and 7 days, prior to the banning, you didn't think it odd that he was clearly siding with this person who was not really a member of the site and had no intention of being a regular member. He proved that over the 5 years, 9 months that he contributed not a single post. And now again in the 6 months since.

So then, when my suspensions escalated to a permanent ban, you didn't have questions as to how Wizard was handling the situation? You didn't have questions as to if he was being any where close to objective?

Fisk, if you are answering any of these questions truthfully....then yes, you should have spoken up. I don't know exactly when would have been the exact best time to have done so, but at some point, I would think you would say something. If you couldn't find the right time to do so, then I can only conclude that you guys are afraid of Mike. And if that is the case, that you and the other mods have no input, no say in anything....then I go back to my earlier question: Why are there even other mods? It seems like it's just a farce.

And now 6 months later, it isn't speculation any longer that Qfit's only objective was to get me banned. That is now crystal clear. Why now that it is crystal clear to everyone what really occurred, is there this "well, it's over and done with" attitude? It's too late to fix it. I deserve better than that!

 

It is quite clear that some of members of WoV, hold Shackleford in such high regard, that it is a cult like following. I believe some of these guys look the other way to some things they disagree with and even find offensive in the name of "hero worship". And that is really sad. It completely goes against what the site was originally supposed to be.

 

KewlJ, I didn't realize that you had only 2 suspensions prior to being permanently banned. I thought it was a graduated scale...3 days, 7 days, 14 days, 30 days etc. I do know that certain cult members are still there after 6 or more suspensions and some were able to start over with 3 days. Manboy made some very weak excuses to explain those. Farce is a great description...especially after 6 months.

 

I would think the
"clean hands doctrine" comes into play once all the facts are on the table.

 

It takes two to tangle.

 

With the possibility that was presented that QFIT may have threatened legal action.....I would guess that this decision then would be bumped up to Zuga, and then re-bumped up to Zugas boss.

So now besides all the issues that Wov has due to mods and the manboy as I detailed in other posts....now we have the dispassionate hand of a new corporate owner that possibly came into play. Someone who has no history with anyone, no 4 year "fond memories"....just purely makes the larger legal decisions based on business reasons.

So if Zuga or Zugas boss has the choice of the expense of defending a lawsuit....or getting rid of a nameless, faceless poster....well from a business point of view....its pretty easy.

It may not be "right" or "fair".,....but the old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" ....seems to apply.

 

Scared of Mike? Is that an actual conclusion you would put stock in? How, KJ? Can he beat me up? No. Affect my employment? No. Fuck with my kid? No. Eject me from hockey? No. Seize my race car? No. He can't even tarnish my reputation or damage my integrity. Only I can do that. The one single thing he could do is tell me my services are no longer needed and turn me back Blue, or even Brown. Do you really think that's something I fear? That I could even possibly fear if I tried my very hardest?

No, KJ. That's not the case. The only thing I can repeat is that it didn't meet my personal criteria for defense.

Yes, I found it supremely odd for you to have an outburst like that. Yes, I found it out of character. No, I didn't find it odd about QFIT and his lack of membership because I did not realize that fact until days, possibly a week+, later. Unlike you, I had NO experience with him. No experience with whatever site he runs. No experience with other forums he frequents, not one single piece of info about him or this situation at all.

And no, I didn't find it odd that Wiz sided with someone I didn't know. Really, KJ, why would I? Is the fact that he has relationships that I'm not aware of a stunning revelation? No. Is it wholly impossible to conceive that someone may side with a personal friend over an internet chum, even if the facts don't support it? Again, no. Ain't fair, but that's entirely common. But since it's not fair, I'll continue a bit with this one. What, exactly, would be my play here? The man makes what appears to be a biased choice based on a personal relationship. You think I'm gonna talk him out of it? Some dude who he talked to once some 4 years ago? C'mon. And even if I was "supposed" to, we're still at the point where I don't know fuck-all about anything. There simply was nothing for me to do.

And do let's be fair here. This is the internet, yes? And though you respected and even "liked" me, and I respected and followed all of your activity out of desire and interest, you and I had, as far as I can remember, zero personal interaction. Maybe I made a comment when you talked family, but we didn't chat. We didn't PM. We didn't have lengthy discussions or debates or even wish each other a weekly top o' the mornin'. All I knew of you was what you CHOSE to reveal.

So when I see an out of character tirade, charges that you visit hate sites, charges that you faked your own death, and from someone who at least initially appeared to not be a quack and in some way connected to Wiz, what in all of the fucks could you have expected me to do? I mean, I claim I have a bad temper and that I'm prone to violence, right? Would you have guessed that through my interactions at WoV? Discussions of ethics and politics aside, I feel I'm pretty even keeled in public. The reason for that is because I am VERY slow to act. Every post that compels me to respond is usually one I've had an emotional reaction to, and most of my emotions are at least a cousin to anger, if not Lord Anger Almighty Himself. I act slowly until I've settled, been able to compose myself, THEN find info if needed, THEN I act. Even barring any indication that QFIT was in some way connected, my response would have been quite delayed, indeed. With all the claims made, I wouldn't have made a peep, other than I'm on it and please stand by, until after plenty of investigation and vetting. And as things played out, that process would have been completed too late anyways.

I'm sorry you're pissed at that. And now that I HAVE some of the info you HAD, I can see the reason for your outrage. All I can say is that at the time, when it mattered, I didn't. And because of that, though I dislike the outcome, I do not regret my actions. Because I DO have to maintain my objectivity, and I DO have to act on fact and not bias or hunches. You were in it, for you it was painfully obvious. Perhaps you can see why, for me, it was about as clear as a Great Lakes sky in February.

That just leaves the "over and done with, too late to fix". And I'll have to ask again, what do you want from me? What you CHOSE to share is fuck Shack, fuck being treated like that, fuck the damn rules, fuck QFIT, etc and so forth. Really, can you imagine... "Hey Wiz, Face here. You know that guy who told you to fuck yourself? Yeah, the one who said he was going to spend the rest of his life ruining you, that guy. Well, shucks, it'd be swell if you let him back. Yeah, yeah, I know what he said about you, but seriously, he writes good content. Wha? Oh, all that stuff on GF... yeah, well... I'm just saying it'd be cool to have him back. What say you?"

I. Don't. Know. How. To. Fucking. Handle. That.

There, there's an actual failure you can pin on me. I don't. I don't even know how to begin to try.

Sorry, KJ. I can't do this for you. Not because you don't deserve it, not because I just don't want to, but because I have no fucking idea how to. After everything that's transpired... yeah, it IS too late for ME to fix. I'll still extend the offer to help. I can talk, mediate, try to convince, and I will. But YOU need to open that door to let me get a foot in first. Fair or no, it's the only way I can see a way for me to help =/

 

Do you guys realize that this thread as now gotten to the point of puking and having the squirts at the same time.

Kewlj with the same story over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

Please, Kewlj you’re a grown man. Stop behaving like this and snap out of it.

 

Being unjustly suspended, and initiating the back and forth to try to be re-instated was fine. If you took the high road, and let it stay civil and then came here, and stated your case, and that you would like a mod from Wov to intervene .....that would maybe have worked out for you. That might just have given you the better outcome.

But ending with the big "fuck you" to manboy, and then coming here and doubling down on the "fuck you"......doesnt leave the mods much room for backing you.

So you were dealt a bad card initially.....well take some personal responsibility to how you reacted to it. You started off doing well, appearing to be the better person as you dealt with it.....and then you undid it all.. So in a world where personal responsibility should prevail....just realize you could have handled it differently toward the end, and take your medicine.

Take it like a man

and I am not talking about your favorite sexual position.

 

A couple things Fisk.

1. This notion of "personal friend". If this was really a personal friend of Mikes....someone who he knew personally and spent time with, and this person and I were both "legit" members of the site, meaning regular participating, contributing members, and Mike felt that these two parties could not co-exist, then it would seem more acceptable. Still unfair, but you could see how that would work.

BUT, none of those things were true. On Qfit and Mike's friendship, Qfit has indicated he has met Mike a couple times. In a discussion at Qfit's site, BJTF, last year, I believe with member RS, when asked about participating at WoV, Qfit stated that he did not trust Shackleford because of Mike's prior relationship with a casino (Venetian). He then went on to say something to the effect that those of us AP's that did participate there, like RS, Romes and myself were foolish for doing so based on Mike's past history (Venetian). Again, it isn't my place to comment on what criteria Mike uses to define "a friend", but I ask you does that sound like a friend to you?

And one other interesting thing is that in private discussions with Mike after my banning, I wanted to remind Mike of Qfit's opinion of him, based on things he had publically posted. When I brought these very comments up, Mike responded that Qfit had actually said worse things about him (that I guess I wasn't aware of). But again, this is his good "friend"?? The good friend that he is siding with over what he calls "one of the better members of the site"?

2. Why would anything that I wrote here at GF matter? Up until I was banned for the reason given....something I said on another site (the so called hate site), there was a rule at WoV that anything said at another site was irrelevant. It didn't matter. It wasn't held against anyone. But that rule was changed for me. I guess you are now telling me that I continue to be the exception to that longs standing WoV policy, that the things I say here are being held against me.

I think you will agree that the reasoning behind this long standing rule is that, you really can't prove it is even the same person posting on another site. I mean there is really no proof (other than my word) that I am the same KewlJ as posted at WoV. I am...of course, but that is the reason why what someone posts on another site should not have any bearing. In a court of law it would be called "inadmissible". But again, I am being singled out to be excluded from this long standing policy and things say elsewhere are held against me.

Oh and btw, isn't it funny the reason given for my ban was something I posted at ZenZone (the so called hate site). And BTW, my participation at that site is strictly limited to blackjack and gambling discussions. I have never posted a single post or word on any of the hate topics. But Qfit loves to mention that I post on the hate site or anti-semitic, racist site, to try to smear me. But anyway, back to my point. Minutes after the post criticizing Mike's actions, which at that time where suspension of me, I was permanently banned by Mike. Literally minutes. isn't that strange considering Mike doesn't read that site?? But Qfit does (he monitors every thing said about him everywhere). Crybaby, Qfit immediately contacted Mike, alerting him to something I said on another site. How very, very lame by both parties.

And finally, regarding things I have said here at GF's, I would like to remind you again, why I am here. In a private discussion with Mike, he suggested that I join this site. He said that there was a whole forum devoted to "attacking him" and I should join. Up until that moment, I was not aware of GF, nor the WoV dying thread. So my participation here and criticisms of Mike and WoV, was just what he suggested I do. Why would he hold that against me?

 

I know.

Its like me, expecting the mods to insist that manboy give a reason for my suspension. And me coming here and asking face why he didnt react to this "injustice".

But lets face it blackhole(my favorite porn movie name)......we all have to take personal responsibility,,,which is why 90 percent of what I have commented on for this thread has been about the treatment of others.....going out of my way to keep the me me me out of the equation.

Even posts on wov werent about me me me. Never complaining about a 3 day or 30 day suspension.

So I sense your frustration.

 

this is toooooooo easy. He didnt order you to come here. And even if he did....you are a person of free will.
He tells you that if you want to bad mouth him there is a site called GF you should go to.
And at that point you had a choice

1- you could refuse and go elsewhere and never come here
2- you could come here and take the high road and try to enlist help of mods and members of wov without insult
3- you could come here and bad mouth him

your choice.......your responsibility.......take your medicine like a man..........And I am not talking about suppositories