Baccarat A serious question: do you think legitimate casinos will try to cheat you?

Can't get my head around some illiterate, compulsive disorder sufferer claiming to have won millions over the last few years, yet is hiding out in a rental flat in Toronto, without the means (or has a reason to avoid doing so) to cross the US border and play at Foxwoods or Mo Sun. You gotta love these scaredy cats advising (telling) others how to play when they haven't got two pennies to rub together, LOL

 

agreed. I can't find any such cheating casino in Oz land, after doing a Google

 

So it never happened, cos' you can't find it, maybe to expect me to go looking "again" to prove a point?? I think I may have even posted the link in the casinos forums on this site.

 

no. not here to argue the point jk. just saying i couldn't find any such breach via google. and my personal inclination as an australian, is to believe that any such behaviour by an australian casino, would be difficult to find. i'm happy to be proven wrong though.

 

the reason i say that any such behaviour by an australian casino would be hard to find is mainly due to the media here. corrupt corporate behaviour is a gold mine for australian media. they would use any kind of slant on such a story to take down a company, even if the company may be reasonably well run. in Crown's case however, they weren't well run, and they've paid a heavy price. i doubt it is because they tried to deceive clients on the tables, but for other reasons not so easily detected. deceiving clients at the tables would be so outrageous, Crown would know it would not be able to get away with that sort of thing, even if they tried to hide it.

 

To be deliberately obtuse, I do not think any casino is going to cheat anyone as casinos are buildings without agency and cannot think or do anything. Casinos however contain these pesky things we call human beings, that often don't need a reason, or even for something to be in their best interest to attempt to cheat other human beings.

I had a brief business partner that I personally witnessed lie & cheat someone, when having been honest would have netted him slightly MORE MONEY. No, you didn't hear that incorrectly. He cheated someone into (not out of) an additional $380. Without a full psych workup I can only give you my opinion. It appeared to me his sole motivation for cheating was "getting away with something".

BTW: He was a Baccarat player.

In closing, there is no reason or motivation big casinos would have to cheat. None at all. Given what I've seen, that's not a guarantee some f-uped idiot with mental problems that works in a casino wouldn't do it just to do it and get away with it.

 

No. If you got too good at Baccarat, they will just ban you from that game.

 

I've heard and seen BJ players being flat betted, difficult to ban anybody from playing Baccarat, or even Roulette, they wouldn't do that, rather drum up some excuse, or set you up, and bar you from the casino, again I've seen that and it's happened to me.

LOL

 

There are no good players at this game ------------- only winners or losers .

 

It took me less than 2 mins via Google.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...00000-in-victoria-for-poker-machine-tampering

https://www.theage.com.au/national/crown-fined-for-short-decks-20071005-ge5z97.html

The top one is new to me, so that now makes it 5 Times (yes FIVE), the second article mentions a further 3 breaches in the game of Texas Hold'em Poker

While on the subject of The Crown, when it very first opened, a professional team of BJ players flew in and took them for about $10M

 

Another tale regarding The Crown, a Vietnamese Husband and Wife, big Melbourne players. I was spoke to the husband at the Baccarat table in Adelaide, super, super friendly, sincerely hell of a nice guy.

Anyway, the wife who I was sitting next to at one time put some large bet on the Banker, don't recall what it was, $20k maybe. Low and behold whatever I was doing had me betting player with my miniscule bet. I don't go for the nonsense remove your bet out of respect, fuck that, nobody but me pays my bills.

Anyway this lady, didn't want anybody betting opposite her, also she had only been placing bets in the hundreds up to this point. She asks me to remove my bet, of course I say no, that it makes no difference blah LOL. So she says to me, take your bet off and if she loses, I'll pay you, to which I agreed, she removes my bet and takes my chips, LOL. The boss man, asks me if I'm okay with that and we can't force her to pay you. I say fine.

Few of the table all follow her lead, lots of shouts, I sit it out.

Cards are drawn from the shoe, Picture to the Player, Banker cards given to this woman face down, who doesn't peek. Second card to the Player is an 8, the whole table lets out this massive groan, including me. I can put my hand on my heart and say, despite the odds, I've never witnessed a player so confident and with so much exuberance, staring at a natural 8 to the opposing side, it was uncanny. Also, if she drops $20k, I'm now suppose to ask her for my missing bet too? (good luck with that).

(For her age, she was a decent looker as well, she'd be shit in the sack though, way too far gone with a gambling habit to ever enjoy sex!!).

She peeks at the first card, another face card, she flips it to the dealer. The second card, she rubs frantically on some spot on the table, she gets down low and starts blowing, 20~30 seconds seems like minutes, bang, you knew it was coming, Banker wins 9 over 8, a roar goes up, congratulations (no back-slapping obviously).

Of course, we've all seen this before, but what made it remarkable to my eyes, is the sheer confidence, I've never seen anything like it, despite the Player showing a N8, it was like she knew she was wining no matter what. Crazy stuff.
None of her big win which I was happy for her, was coming my way, so I asked for my chips, even if I would have lost the bet, which she gave me back, so win win all around.

It wasn't long after, that I was in the VIP room on the Gold Coast, the same woman was there with some GF's, unfortunately she must have left her mojo in Melbourne or Adelaide, because she had no stake money, so that wasn't hard to figure out the trip hadn't gone well.

Now what has this to do with Melly? Circa 2006 it was well known by all casino staff all over Oz (I was told about it in Canberra which is to small to be on her radar), that an Asian woman has won $12M at the Crown.

I'm not 100% sure it was this Vietnamese woman, but if I had to take a guess, I'd be confident it was. Anyway they took the $12M and went on a jaunt across Oz, Sydney, Perth (don't know if Adelaide was on that particular itinerary), and blew the lot, as in the entire twelve fuckin' million dollars. The Crown were spewing big time, because their money had just been redistributed across Australia and now they had no chance of getting it back.


There exists a huge rivalry and competition between the casinos in different states. Like the guy who held up the VIP room at Melbourne casino at gun point, they knew who he was as they had his ID.

He name and face is circulated everywhere by Police. 24 hrs later he turns up at Adelaide casino and starts gambling, the casino does NOTHING. They know who he was and that he is wanted as soon as he walked in, even patrons know who he was, as it was all over the news haha.

Adelaide casino finally called the Police after he had lost everything, which if course, they get to keep... When asked by many, including myself, why they didn't call the Police when he walked in, they reply with a smirk "we didn't know if he was armed".


Folklore.

 

I think society has programmed us into equating winners = good and losers = bad.

 

Well there you go jk. Well done in finding those articles. They're SORT OF backing you though. Normal dealer errors.

Poker machine adjustments during trials? Don't know what that is? Granted though, you found two articles I didn't.

Also, I do recall Crown Perth, at one point in time, adjusted the speed (made them faster) of poker machines to make them profitable. That's because the machines were bleeding money.

Crown did ask for permission from the authorities though, to make the changes. The current investigation said the authorities were in error because the increased speed of the machines was detrimental to the community.

All-in-all, I would still say, based on all the information, it would be hard for the casinos in Australia to get away with cheating clients. I agree that authorities need to keep a close eye on the casinos, though.

 

What an entertaining story. I bet you have many more. You should collect them, weave them around a moral and actionable takeaways for your readers and publish. Huntington Press would be your best bet.

 

Here's another tale, this time Jupiter's on the Gold Coast, circa 2015.

The public tables on the ground floor, two young Chinese guys turn up late afternoon. placing $300 and $400 bets, which is decent for the public floor. Don't recall which side-bet was on offer, usually players might cover it for $5, $10, or $25 at a max. Soon these guys were putting $100 chips on whatever it was and $500 bets on Bank and the side bet was coming in, might have been Perfect Pairs?

They were cleaning up big time, a few $1000 bets if they lost a few hands, win the $1000, repeat the bet LOL. They must have made $10k ~ $15k inside 30~45mins and then disappeared.

I hit the VIP room later on, as usual I pay little attention to nobody or nothing, rather just focus on doing my own thing. At some stage when I had finished, either early hours or whenever. I noticed few other players hovering around a private table. These are tables reserved by request, not private rooms, rather the VIP area, other patrons have to stand 2 feet back, can't make any comments, otherwise you're asked to leave.

Just leaving the table were the same two young Chinese lads with their GF's, I looked at the pits faces, they were kind of like, trying very hard to smile yet SEETHING. Some choice comments were said amongst themselves, let's just say they weren't happy, livid in fact. Obviously these guys had been betting Banker, maybe at the table max??

I look at the score board, it's not usual to see, especially with "Shuffle-Master" shuffled shoes, a shoe commence with something like 11 bankers, something, then soon after another 7 Banker streak. They left the shoe with less than a third of the shoe dealt, telling the staff to freeze the shoe, they will continue tomorrow!! Anyway to cut a story short, it took four of them, GF's and all to carry the Plaques (biscuits) to the cage.

If my memory serves me correct, I think they had bet $15k on each of those Bankers, it was many years ago, but they won close to quarter of a mill, quarter of a million friggin dollars, not exactly behind closed doors either. Plus with their own stake, they must have had maybe $750k in plaques. They were carrying them from their waist to just under their neck, no security LOL.

I have never ever seen so much money in a casino, in fact never seen so much money anywhere. I did mention it at the time, either on Gamblers Glen or Baccarat Lab's, I found the amount of money obscene, I recall GR8 wasn't impressed!!

Sure, it is their money, they can do whatever they want, but you could buy a luxury house out-right with those chips, never mind those that are struggling. Gambling with that amount of cash, it's like 15 years of income for a well paid employee after tax. 15 years of income and there it is, sitting on a Baccarat table, nar, it didn't seem right. They obviously didn't exchange the plaques for cash, rather held on account, otherwise there might have been a sudden rush for ski masks.

It's one thing to have that kinda of wealth, it's another to have that level of wealth and gamble with it, were not talking the late Kerry Packer here, rather a couple of young Chinese kids, pffftt.

I asked another onlooker who they were, they just said, they were already very wealthy, no kidding, couldn't believe it, probably in their 20's, I hadn't seen them for the previous week I had been there. Hopefully they never continued the shoe, I wouldn't know.

 

There is a very interesting aspect to your story and that's the pointlessness of people with that much money "gambling" in the first place. That they choose to do it with GF's and people watching rather than in a private VIP room is also telling.

It's my hypothesis that there is a "veblen like effect" in play. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

The reason giving diamond rings caught on as "a thing" is for the same reason Peacocks have exorbitant feathers. When attracting mates or simply trying to impress anyone (anyone includes yourself) 100% competence is not enough. You need to have MORE than enough money/energy/health to waste some of what you have on frivolous, and arguably pointless adornments.

If you were on a desert island and had your choice between a ton of cow manure or a 10 Karat Diamond Ring, the crap would be far more useful. If you really think about it diamond rings are less valuable than shit. However that's the point. Spending money on something useless shows that you can waste money and still have enough.

Waste is the point... Just my theory.

 

While searching my hard drive looking for info relating to Spike's eBay scams, I came across this;

Crown fined over 'short decks'


Crown Casino has been fined - again - for using decks with less than 52 cards.

The three latest cases, including one this month, follow six cases last year.

The three fines in February, April and July all related to incomplete decks - known as "short decks" - during games of Texas Hold'em Poker.--

Despite being fined $35,000 for last year's breaches,the latest breaches have in some cases received smaller penalties.

While the casino watchdog, the Victorian Commission for Gambling Regulation, found the use of incomplete decks to be "human error by casino staff" and not intentional breaches, the penalties and the casino's systems for controlling such errors have been questioned.

"The penalties are certainly not stiff enough to force Crown to fix their systems," said the chairman of the Interchurch Gambling Taskforce, Mark Zirnsak. "If an error does occur from the dealers, Crown should be immediately stopping and reporting it."

Fines handed down to the casino this year were $1000, $2000 and $5000 for using incomplete decks of cards.

The Commission says consideration of whether the dealer played on after the missing cards were discovered was a key factor in determining the penalty.

In handing down its $5000 fine in February, the Commission noted Crown's "failure to report the breach at the time of its discovery".

Crown spokesman Gary O'Neill said mistakes occurred from time to time. He said a "short count" was usually caused by a card stuck in a shuffling machine and was almost always discovered on the next shuffle.

"It's unfortunate that these things happen, you try and limit it as much as you can," he said.

He said Crown had the most poker tables of any casino in Australia, dealing hundreds of hands each and statistically, mistakes were "extremely small".

Mr O'Neill would not comment on whether the fines were appropriate.

Commission executive commissioner Peter Cohen said it was important games were played by the rules.

"The Commission is always concerned to ensure that the games at the casino are played fairly for the players and we want the casino operator to ensure its own staff understand that their actions are important," he said.

He said the Commission considered the circumstances of each breach before determining the penalty.

"The VCGR assesses each breach independently ... If a breach is more serious there will be a larger penalty," he said.

Mr Cohen denied the penalties of between $1000 and $5000 were insignificant for a casino with a multi-million dollar annual turnover.

"We hope the penalties are educative, that Crown recognises that its employees need to be aware of their responsibilities," he said.

 

Screw you, I never scanned anybody. I'm sick of your personal attacks. Report time..

 

Never said you scanned anybody, rather you SCAMMED loads of folk on eBay, I posted all the details on GamblerGlen back at the time.

Stop lying your ass off, feeling smug as GG no longer exists, I'm still looking for the evidence.

 

So I'm just reading stuff I haven't bothered with and I come across @Junket King the funniest thing he's ever said. Crack me up!

"(For her age, she was a decent looker as well, she'd be shit in the sack though, way too far gone with a gambling habit to ever enjoy sex!!)."