Lounge Does anyone do anything but bitch on here

The problem with Jackpot Aces is there is no software on the market than can fully analyze the game. Its because of two paying hands, Natural Aces Full of Anything and Five Aces. There is no software that can account for these two hands. One of the very first things I taught myself years ago was how to calculate video poker strategy with scratch paper and a calculator. There are very few people, even AP's, that can do this. So that's my in on the game. My guess is that most AP's even if they seen the game and payscale on the machine would have no clue it was advantage. If they do estimate that it might be some kind of advantage they are going to be hard pressed to do the math.

 

JK, you ask some great questions. I'm feelung the effects of the several shots of Black Velvet I've taken. I will give you a respinse tommorow when I'm sober, hangover and all.

 

I'm certain he's talking about a video poker machine that's programmed wrong. Either way, slot plays are nothing like DI, there's actual math to back it up and examples of people beating them.There's certain slots that become +EV due to things such as accumulated bonus, progressive, must hit progressives, shared linked bonuses or certain promotions. IE a loss rebate, jackpot bonus or something like that. There's more, but I won't get into all that.

A slot progressive is simple(i'll exclude meters move for simplicity, and it's not always a progressive), let's say you know a slot machine holds 10%, you also know the jackpot cycle is 20k spins. If its a 2 coin $1 machine, on average you would run 40k though the machine and lose and on average 4k. If the progressive or jackpot is up to 8k you now have a theoretical 4k profit. That's in the long run, you could hit it on the first spin and be up $7998 or go 80k spins and be down 4k+. @1k spins an hour that's worth about $200 an hour on average.

 

Bit confusing for a newbie, $200 an hour yet you may not win? I might snap some photographs when I go to the casino tonight, post them here and tell me what you think. Maybe the machines are different in the US, to me they are lights, noise, with a load of funny symbols.

One thing I would like to mention, is how slot players are looked after at certain casinos I've been to. Despite being a VIP card holder myself, I couldn't venture into slot VIP areas. VIP slot players have their own "behind closed doors" space, own buffets, service hosts, have their own end of year prize draw giveaways, separate from other VIP table games. I always viewed them as 'severely addicted' and looked after better than other VIP players.

Everything I've come across on the web has them designed to make those playing them develop an addiction, from the flashing lights and noises, responsible for the biggest gambling issues in NZ and Aus than other other form of gambling. Crooked social club machines (pokies) are supposed to return a certain percentage, say 80% which can be changed to 70% because the owners profit margin is down for the month perhaps, back up again in time for the visit from the government inspectors (electronics might have brought this shady practice to an end).

My understanding from what I came across on the Wizard sites, is that there is a possible edge playing playing video poker if you know what you're doing, I didn't know it extended to other slots machines. I understand rebates, promotions, these are not exclusive to slots.

 

Here is the screenshot of Jackpot Aces. Its a two-coin quarter bet. You can see the payscale, except you can't see the pay for a regular full house. It pays 9 for 1. You can see the Aces Full of Anything meter sitting on $100. Thats either a glitch or a technicians error. There are a couple of thousand machines here with this game on them. But the Aces Full meter starts at either $10, $15, or $20. I found the glitch where the meter is starting at $100 on a couple of dozen machines several years ago. At the time my hourly rate on my other plays wasn't that high so I played this game quite a bit. I ran a circuit on the machines taking only so much money out of each one then giving them soak time. It a lot of years later now and I'm down to two machines in one joint. You can see it's a very top heavy payscale but the money swings aren't bad because its just a fifty cent bet.

 

Junket King, perhaps you've never heard of Peter Liston. He was a school teacher who made himself a millionaire playing the Mystery Progressives in Australia a New Zealand. He was playing for five and six figure jackpots and the progressive meters were running at 5% and 6%. We had Mystery Progressives here in the U.S too. But the jackpots weren't that big and the meters ran at only 1% and 2%. So we didn't have the big opportunity here that he had in Australia and New Zealand. He wrote a book about his exploits called Million Dollar Slots. The Kindle version costs $10 at Amazon.

 

JK, this is an example of a short term advantage. Yeah, sure, the game has about a 90% overall return playing the game straight through. But I don't play the game straight through. In the screenshot you can see that the progressive meter is at $121. The meter resets to zero. You can see that 2 Triple Horseshoes have been banked. When I walk into a casino this is one of the games I check to see where the meters are and how many Triple Horseshoes have been banked. The frequency of catching 3 Triple Horseshoes in a row is 857. By continually tapping the start sensor I can crank out 900 spins in a half hour.

What I'm doing is taking advantage of the ploppie action. The ploppies banked the 2 Triple Horseshoes and ran the meter up to $122. Then I come along and find it, grab a seat and spin it off. This particular play, with the numbers shown, is an average $93 earn for a half hours average seat time.

 

And here is the happy outcome of the play. BTW, the meter runs at 5% on this game. You can also see that I'm betting 8 coins (40 cents) on this play. You can bet up to 40 coins but the optimum bet is just 8 coins to qualify for the meter.

 

Rob Singer gets his jollies off by calling me a nickel player. But my seat time in spots like the above is worth about $180 an hour. Low risk/high reward plays are my specialty. Its why I get payed everyday.

 

This is great stuff.

Speaking of Rob, he's been awfully quiet lately.

 

Thanks Micky

Don't mind asking, how do you work out this info?
slowly making more sense. I'm just back after a 10hr casino session, so a bit shattered and frazzled at the mo, I've taken some machine snaps which I'll post later on, maybe you can make sense of them.

 

Ok so it sounds like a degree of research is required.

Can't say I have, I will check it out, ta.

Here are some pictures I took last night, they make no sense to me, just wondering if they make any to you?













Just noticed some of these machine are missing pay-scales, I tried to snap as much info as poss' without making it too obvious.

 

JK, go over to the slot forum to the What is an AP Play? thread. On page six I explain how I collected stats on this game. It's the formula I use for most line games.

 

JK, I see you have IGT machines in your location. Games like Pharoah's Fortune, Candy Bars and Davinci Diamonds don't have any potential for exploitability because there are no progressive meters and/or banking features. The line game that I put up in this thread has both a progressive meter and a banking feature.

But you do have a few pictures here of games that have progressive meters on them. Does the meters running in pounds mean you are in England. Or are you in Australia or New Zealand?

 

Read the other thread and will do some exploring on youtube, I understand the whole slot scene much better.
Yep those machines are in the UK.

 

mICKEY.

the examples you give make sense, and I believe you could exploit them...at least I guess its possible.

But arent you taking potential future money making possibilities out of your grasp as you teach others publicly of these exploitable machines....assuming someone might see it and make it go away or get re-programmed.

 

That's the conventional wisdom, Larry. Never tell what you know. You don't see Axel putting up screenshots of plays. I've really told very little. I've always been able to make money on the machines no matter what anyone else knows. At my age it just doesn't concern me that much.

 

I'm not going to take up slot machines, was just curious from a "I don't believe it" prospective.

 

JK, this game here has meters on it. The first thing I would do on this game is check the meter speed. If meters are running at just .5% or 1% then the game is probably not exploitable. But every once and awhile I find meters running at 3%. 4%, 5%. This is key as to whether the game may be exploitable or not.

It appears that the Maxi meter probably resets to 1000 pounds. And the Mini meter resets to 500 pounds. Since there is not much extra money in the meters it is an indication to me that the meters run slow. But I would do the obligatory and check them anyway. The Mini meter is the one I would concentrate on.

Another thing you need to know is what is the minimum bet to qualify for the meters. It look like the max bet is 2 pounds. If that is what you have to bet to qualify for the meters then the Mini meter at reset would be paying 250 for 1. But there is no way you would have an advantage when the meter is that low.

Now, what are my chances to catch the five scatters to get the Mini meter? If I thought there was a chance this game could go positive, usually based off meter speed, then I would do an empirical study on the chances to catch the five scatters. I would play making a minimum bet just to get the stats. You have to count the number of games you play. In most cases you can use the slot card to do that. If you are making a 2 pound bet and you get 1 point for everyone 10 pounds in action then you are getting 1 point per 5 spins. If you put 257 points on the card then you made 2750 pounds in action. Divide that by 2 pounds and you played 1375 games. So the card is doing the work for me. You have to keep these stats.

To make it not to complicated I would count the scatters that land on the first reel through 500 spins. Then I would do the same thing for the second reel, third reel, etc. This will give me a ballpark on the chances of catching the scatters on all five reels. The bigger the sample space gets the more accurate the information will be.

If it wound up where the chances of the first reel were 1 in 3, 2nd reel 1 in 10, 3rd reel 1 in 3, 4th reel 1 in 10, 5th reel 1 in 3, then I know the frequency is somewhere around 2700.

Another thing I would be doing is tracking the drop. How much money did I put in the machine? How much am I cashing out? How many spins did I make? If I made 1000 spins at 2 pound per spin and got dropped for 300 pounds then I would know I got dropped for 15%.

What I'm looking for is the cost to go after the mini meter. If the frequency turns out to be 2700 and the drop turns out to be 15%, then thats a 5400 pound wager. 15% of 5400 pounds is 810 pounds.

So I would only play the game when I found the Mini meter somewhere over 810 pounds.

 

Mickey seems to be the only one who posts things on a regular basis.