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Blackjack Does counting cards still work?

Discussion in 'Blackjack Forum' started by miles, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. miles

    miles New Member

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    Occupation:
    Crane operator
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    Everyone knows about counting cards but is it still working in casinos?

    Its very easy to do with this chart
    [​IMG]

    But then there are these shuffler machines.
    [​IMG]
    Is there anyone who knows the real effect of these machines?
    I found this here https://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/continuous-shuffle-machines/
     
  2. miles

    miles New Member

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    One my images isnt showing I think the site doesnt allow it so it is are the website I submitted. That looks like the model they use at my casino.
     
  3. HowMany

    HowMany Active Member

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    Ohio
    Yes counting still works. But it's not as easy as many think.

    Don't bother counting at a table that uses a continuous shuffler.
     
  4. miles

    miles New Member

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    I thought as much. Does anyone know how common these machines are?
     
  5. Kunal khanna

    Kunal khanna New Member

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    anyone please say more about shuffler machines.....
     
  6. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Ok, there are two types (not models) of shuffling machines. The one pictured above is a continuous shuffling machine (CSM). With this machine cards are placed back in the machine almost immediately, usually after anywhere from a half deck to a deck have been played. This makes counting very difficult. You just aren't getting to see enough cards before they are reinserted. Technically it is like playing a game with extremely shallow penetration, so technically you could beat this game with a massive spread, I am talking really big spread, one to several hundred, and then the variance or swings would be huge. So realistically, it's uncountable.

    Second type of machine (which is not shown) is an automatic shuffle machine (ASM). This type of machine usually 6 or 8 decks, although sometimes 2 decks, the dealer deals the cards, placing the used cards in card rack until the shuffle point is reached. At that point instead of the usual hand shuffle, the dealer places the cards into a machine which shuffles so the dealer avoids shuffling. With this type of machine, there are two different sets of cards that are used. One red backs and one blue backs. So one set of cards is being shuffled while the other is being played. This eliminates any down time. That is the big advantage of these types of machines.

    As to how common they are....that depends on locations. Some places use one, the other, or both a lot, while others, don't. Vegas strip for example uses a lot of shuffle machines (mostly CSM), but many of the off strip properties do not.

    There are drawbacks to the machines which is probably why they are not used even more often. One draw back is they jam very frequently. That's not really that big a deal, but it does slow the game down and that defeats the purpose. Worse than a simple jam, both types of machines break down constantly and need a lot of maintenance. That is additional costs which defeat the purpose.

    And last, unless things have changed recently, both types of machines must be leased, they cannot be purchased. This means an ongoing expense which defeats the purpose.
     
    Spider and bluechow like this.
  7. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    I guess I should add that the second type of machine, the ASM, is countable, just like a hand shuffled game. In fact even better because there is no down time.
     
  8. Junket King

    Junket King Active Member

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    I have not seen a hand shuffled game in New Zealand, Australia, UK or Singapore in the last 10 years. All tables using CSM's. Game over if you're not in the US.
     
  9. Luke

    Luke New Member

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    Fort Worth
    Many places still hand-shuffle manual shoes to my surprise.
    Mohegan Sun in CT has probably 50 BJ tables across the place, and they hand-shuffle 8 deck manual shoes.

    I've heard from casino staff that a continuous shuffler machines costs about 30k. Not cheap.
     

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