Feedback Should we enforce our Rule #1 - Be Respectful ?

We have not started enforcing this rule yet, but there are a lot of misconceptions about it that we need to clear up before we start enforcing it. We've tried to address all of them below, but if we missed any, please let us know and we'll address it.

You would not need to research it. It would be up to us to enforce the rules based on this criteria. If the criteria were met, we'd simply move your post to the designated section. Or, of course, you will have the option of not insulting those you may think may be active members to avoid having your posts moved. Considering most insults here happen between active members, this is an easy one.

Correct and our community would gain an active member. If this criteria is abused, then we'll simply make it stricter.

Considering he's a public figure, if The Donald signs up without using his real name and without confirming who he is, then the insults about him could continue since we would have no confirmation that he's a member. If he were to confirm to us he were a member, then we would let you know when we moved your new insults about him to the new designated section.

That's fine. Feel free to correct members with supporting evidence without insulting them. Insults are completely superfluous to a discussion. A cogent argument about how a member is a hypocrite that points to their conflicting statements/behavior is not an insult.

A trickier one is calling someone "scammer". Just blurting out "You're a scammer!" will be considered an insult, but we won't consider something like "You're a scammer because you are trying to sell a Keno System that does not overcome the house edge since [evidence]..." as an insult because it's a characterization supported by evidence that may protect our members, and the target will have the opportunity to refute the evidence.

Members won't be the judges of whether they've been insulted. We will. So it won't matter what a member "feels". If you respectfully point out a member is a hypocrite with supporting evidence, and they have the opportunity to refute it, all in a respectful exchange without lobbing insults, then that's fine. However, if this happens in a thread that has nothing to do with the member, then this exchange may be moved to the Off-topic Section.

The world is not black and white. "You fuck your father in the ass" is an insult. "You bang your 12 year old sister" is an insult. Calling someone a "hypocrite" and supporting that characterization is not an insult.

An insult is an insult. An insult isn't someone saying something another member doesn't like. At the end of the day, we aren't deleting the posts, so we may choose to err on the side of caution and move posts we judge as being "insulting" to the new designated section. This will also give us the opportunity to "undo" such a move if we make a mistake or change our minds.

Again, it's not about how members "feel". It's about whether the insult was directed at them, directly or indirectly. A thread mocking fat people will be tolerated, but if in that thread, that mocking starts getting directed at an active member, then that's where we will draw the line. If our site becomes flooded with more non-gambling related thread that mock folks than actual gambling-related discussions, then we may create a new non-public sub-forum of the Lounge for such discussions so that they don't clutter the rest of the site. We'll play it by ear based on how the site evolves as we've been doing from the start.

No, not at all, because one doesn't need to insult someone to have a spirited debate. Again, insults are completely superfluous to any debate and add nothing to a discussion.

No, that's not an insult, not even an indirect one. Raising a question about someones motives is not an insult.

That's an insult.

We're including "indirect insults" to give us more leeway in terms of being able to move insulting posts from disruptive users who may attempt creative ways of insulting members without doing so "directly". It's to preempt what happened with the Off-topic Posts getting moved to the Off-topic section, where members started including an on-topic sentence before going on an off-topic rant to try and avoid having their posts moved.

Again, we will be judges of what is an "insult". Sure, we'll take flak for it as folks will disagree with us, but we don't know of a single forum community where the Admin team doesn't receive flak for decisions they make. In our case, that flak should be minimal since we won't be deleting posts, closing threads, or banning members.

If "less spirited" means less "fuck yous", then we believe the quality of discussions will go up. That's a good thing. But this new rule does not mean members cannot point out the flaws in other members' arguments as long as they do so respectfully.

At the end of the day, it's impossible to set a hard and fast rule that covers all insults that would be acted upon, and we may have to course-correct as we move forward and unexpected incidences arise, but since we won't be disciplining users nor deleting posts, we aren't too concerned with having to make those judgement calls.

If folks want to completely eliminate the risk of having their posts moved, then we suggest debating a member's ideas, instead of a member's personal qualities.

We prefer to make room for them and move them to our shower room so they can clean up.

We disagree that the board was going "just fine". Most discussion are not gambling-related, the most popular thread is full of insults, and Advantage Players don't feel like endorsing us. That's not the vision we had in mind for GamblingForums.com.

If those vulgarities are directed at an active member, then we'll move them to the new designated section. If those aren't directed at active members and are of an off-topic nature, then they'll be moved to the Off-topic Section.

Calling an active member a "manboy" is insulting. Few can argue with that. But if the target is not an active member, then no action will be taken.

This was indeed making a difference in terms of keeping those threads clean, so we will be taking swifter and more aggressive action once we enforce this rule. If a member is continuously being disruptive and forcing us to work overtime, then we will hand out sanctions to get them to stop so we can focus on more productive areas of the site.

Those aren't the only two solutions. As explained above, we would simply be moving actual insults to the special designated section so that no one has to get banned and our site and threads don't get filled up with vulgarities that derail threads and discussions.

It's not a change of rules since that rule has been here from the beginning, we just weren't enforcing it.

Correct.

What folks say about us has little sway on our actions. We always try to keep the "big picture" in mind and what's best for our community as a whole. We've already been accused (falsely) of just about everything in the book, yet it has not had a single effect on our actions as those who have made such accusations are well aware.

We're fine with that as long as it helps grow our community and make it more productive and appealing to gamblers everywhere.

Folks, at the end of the day, nothing is set in stone and we're happy to course-correct as needed along the way until we have a formula that works in terms of making us the most influential gambling community in the world that is truly independent, comprehensive, and uncensored. We won't compromise our founding principles for anyone or any interests. We just want to create the best gambling community the world has ever seen.

Any other final thoughts before we start enforcing our Rule #1 again?

 

All of those will depend on the context. Like we mentioned earlier, if members don't want to risk having their posts moved to the new designated section, then we recommend not testing the line because we may err on the side of caution and move any posts we feel are insulting an active member to the new designated section.

Let's not forget the purpose of reinforcing this new rule: to increase the quality of the discussions so that they don't get derailed with personal attacks, and to clean the site up to make it more appealing to more folks so that we stay true to our "comprehensive" founding principle. We never delete posts or close threads or limit any gambling-related discussions in order to stay true to our "uncensored" founding principle. As for the accusations regarding us being in bed with WoV or any other past or present gambling community, they are unfounded and completely false because we are 100% independent and don't have to answer to anyone, except our members. That's how we stay true to our "independent" founding principle that ensures we don't compromise any of our principles or rules in favor of any special interests.

As explained previously, our hands got tied when members started including an on-topic sentence when insulting other members in order to keep their posts from being moved to the Off-topic Section. That's how the insults got out of hand in that particular thread. The enforcement of this rule will fix that loophole because it will apply to any posts that insult an active member anywhere outside the new designated section.

That's precisely what enforcing this rule will fix.

We don't consider members here to be "from another board" or outsiders in any way. Once someone registers on this site, they become a full-fledged member of this community and have the same voice as any other member.

If a member doesn't enjoy the change that doesn't allow them to insult other active members and start flame wars, then there isn't much we can do about that. Our responsibility is to the majority of members, not the outliers, so we always have to keep the "big picture" in mind as it is impossible to please 100% of members.

If we are wrong, or if anything we introduce ends up having a negative impact on our overall community, then we have no problem apologizing for it and backtracking. We have no ego attached to our administration of this site. The choices we make are always what we believe will help make this community prosper. Nothing more. Nothing less. That is our responsibility as the Admin team.

We aren't accommodating anyone's vulgarities, we're simply moving the vulgarities away from the public eye to increase the quality of discussions and make the site more appealing to more folks. We firmly believe all members have something to contribute, even members that may be considered "disruptive". It's just a matter of channeling their contributions in a way that allows them to actually add value to the community.

If a member has only been insulting other active members until now, then the enforcement of this rule will move their future insults out of sight, and they will have to find more productive ways of contributing. That's how our community as a whole gains with the enforcement of this rule.