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Blackjack Current feud with Qfit (Norman Wattenberger)

Discussion in 'Blackjack Forum' started by KewlJ, Feb 13, 2017.

  1. Exoter175

    Exoter175 Member

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    Are you serious? There's a thread created about me which was public, warning all APs not to interact with me, AFTER I was extended to a lifetime ban.

    Later, it was moved by Norm to his private section, where he believed Admin and I could not see him take shots at my character. Wrong on both accounts again.

    Jesus, Stoner, do you even read what you write? Did you even read what happened before giving us your opinion?
     
  2. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Proof of Qfit/Norm's Jekyll & Hyde, manipulative agenda. After he posted here, that kind, thoughtful post, portraying himself as the "victim", Norm hightailed it to BJ21, to badmouth me, in hopes of continuing to destroy my reputation. BJ21 is a site I haven't participated on for 18 months since Norm first trolled me there. At that time, 18 months ago, I was a regular participating member at BJ21 and Norm, was a member who did not participate because he had these same feuding issues with other members of BJ21. But when I posted an opinion that Norm didn't like he immediately returned and 'pounced'. The same exact scenario that Would play out at WoV about a month later.

    So This weekend, here is Norm bath-mouthing me to a site, BJ21 that I don't participate at, and haven't for 18 months, just to continue his attempt to damage my reputation. Because that is what this whole thing has been about for Norm. I have an opinion he doesn't like, so he attempts to 'demonize' me, everywhere, he can think of through out the community.

    About a month or so ago, it was the 2+2 Poker Forums, where I rarely participate, but a fellow AP, brought it to my attention. At this point Norm is a traveling freak show, just traveling around to sites, bad-mouthing me, trying to discredit me throughout the community because he doesn't like my opinion. Remember the guy who values a range of opinions? What a bullshit artist. .

    I am not banned or restricted from saying anything at BJ21, I could return and respond, but I am not going to. Although I vow to fight these bullying attempts to discredit me, sometimes saying I will fight for 40 years or the rest of my life, It is just growing old for me. I spend almost as much time defending attacks as I do playing blackjack. It is wearing me out. There is no other words to describe this asshole, other than a manipulative, control-freak, bully. He is a nasty, evil person, through to his core and an internet troll to bootThere is no other words to describe t

    C:\Users\joeyboi317\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache\IE\W3FLIQEC\Screenshot_2017-06-05-16-50-57.png

    C:\Users\joeyboi317\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache\IE\W3FLIQEC\Screenshot_2017-06-05-16-50-57.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  3. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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  4. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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  5. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    And yes gang, I am aware, in the screenshot a member of BJ21 referred to me by the old handle with a first name attached. At this point, people on numerous site, including here, and the sleezy gambler's glen seem to be taking great pleasure in trying to causing harm to me and my career by using that name. That is the kind of people that popular these websites....hater's, hoping to inflict damage to other's. I don't actually play under that name as I usually play BJ unrated and have a number of names on different players cards. Even my entries in databases are not under my real name.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  6. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    We've only revealed Norm's username and Private Messages here, and that was after he lied about us on his BlackjackTheForum.com site and then refused to correct that lie after being given the opportunity to do so and being warned that if he did not, we would expose him. He refused to correct his lie about us, dug himself deeper with another lie, and then got exposed with evidence for the liar that he is. This is all his doing.

    See the third word in our slogan. Our uncensored nature is precisely the reason why the truth always prevails here, just like the truth that Norm is a liar.

    Norm's game is as transparent as his lies. Since we completely discredited him with evidence and he has nothing on us, he fabricates a complete lie to discredit us without evidence so that our exposure of him loses weight.

    What other alias? What systems? What scam? Where's the evidence?

    Note that he is not saying he "thinks" we "may" be doing what he accuses us of or that he himself "believes" we do. He is flat out saying we "sell scam systems under another alias" as if it's a fact.

    You would think someone stating such a "fact" and making such an egregious and absolute accusation would at least back it up with evidence. Surely for him to come to that absolute conclusion and declare it as fact, he must have seen irrefutable evidence that he can easily share with everyone.

    Talk is cheap. That's why if we accuse someone of lying like we did with Norm, we back it up with evidence. If Norm accuses us of something egregious, then he better have evidence to back it up. Of course, we know he doesn't in this case because it's an outright lie, which is why he conveniently left out any evidence.

    This lie is the equivalent of us saying Norm trades in child pornography on the Dark Web. Without evidence, we can say anything just like he has. But we don't because we take our credibility very seriously here as it reflects upon the credibility of our site and its core principles.

    No wonder he said he wouldn't post here anymore because he knows if he posted that complete fabrication here, the first thing we would ask him for is evidence which we know he does not have. He is hoping the members of BJ21 don't demand any evidence.

    Folks at BJ21, if you are reading this, demand evidence from Norm. When he fails to provide unequivocal proof of his egregious false accusation about us, call him out on the liar that he is.
     
  7. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    I applaud you for doing so. Norm has been trolling me and lying about me in this manner for going on two years, at numerous site, starting with his own, then BJ21, then WOV, then 2+2 (where I only very occasionally post), yesterday here, over this past weekend back to BJ21 (where I haven't posted in 18 months). And then there are the email's and the periodic attacks on his site by both Norm and he not only allows, but encourages his membership to do so. It's never-ending. He is relentless. Norm is an internet troll and a bully. He has been, feuding and trolling and bullying in this community, since before there even was an internet!

    I know you only posted information you have to attempt to clear your own name and you have much more that could aid some of the rest of us fighting Norm's trolling war. I am not asking you to post anything on my behalf. But I hope you might consider answering yes or no to 2 questions: (your post yesterday sort of revealed the answer to the first)

    Has Norm ever asked or demanded that you ban, silence, censor, remove posts of mine?

    Has Norm ever asked, demanded that you remove posts of other earlier members?

    I am specifically thinking Zengrifter, but you don't have to be specific...yes or no will be fine. I ask this because it could be further proof of my claim that Norm trolls the internet, threating administrators and filing complaints demanding they shut down opinions he does not like.
     
  8. Exoter175

    Exoter175 Member

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    Or how about simply, the only individual posting any evidence at all, was yourself. Norm made claims, you and I provided the evidence to shred those claims. It doesn't get any more damning than that. In a court this would be dismissed WITH prejudice.
     
  9. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    We cannot confirm or deny either of the above as we've already proven Norm is a liar, so violating his privacy further by publicly exposing the above would be superfluous to that end and is therefore unnecessary. It is true that we have a lot on Norm, but we made it a point that we do not expose private information unless someone lies about us and the private information can unequivocally prove they are lying. Even then, we only expose the bare minimum to support our claim and nothing more as we take people's privacy very seriously. But people's right to privacy does not supersede our right to defend ourselves from their lies if they decide to cross that line. So what's the lesson to be learned here? Don't lie about us or our community.
     
  10. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    That's fine. I would have likes confirmation, but honestly already know the answers to both questions from other sources. Anybody that knows Qfit even a little bit, knows the answers to these questions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  11. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    My whole feud with (Qfit), Norm Wattenberger, which spilled over to WoV, culminating in my banning there, was really about a player making impossible and misleading, what I believe was intentionally misleading claims involving his blackjack play and the 'super duper' system that he claims he invented. In particular, myself and two other professional players objected to the statement that this guys methods produced results that were a 500% increase in EV over hi-lo counting methods....500%!!!.....that is 5 times the results. This was and continues to be impossible, yet the guy made these claims over and over for years, going completely unchallenged by math guys like Norm.

    So fast forward to today in a post at WoV entitled 'maximum edge from blackjack play'. Norm (qfit) posts the following: The study was not perfect; but far better than the old BJ computers. It showed about a 75% gain in win rate over HiLo given a particular set of specifications. Note, this is less than a 75% gain in EV.

    This study, involving perfect computer play or simulation shows a 75% increase over standard hi-lo play. 75%, less than double...for perfect computer play!!?? And yet the member of Norm's site that made claims of 500% increase was allowed to go unchallenged for years now. And when I did challenge him, I was banned at Norm's site and trolled by Norm to other sites, where he requested I be banned.

    And yet today, he has just proven my point.

    The question that someone should ask then (in the WoV thread), is why for several years, did Qfit allowed a member of his site to make claims of 500% increases in EV gain over hi-lo, when it was, is and continues to be mathematically impossible?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  12. Parpaluck

    Parpaluck New Member

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    Holy smokes! This Norman Wattenberger is incurable — always a Victim! I think he started with yours truly back in the year of grace 1999! O tempora! O mores!

    · First, it was a formula that “killed” him: FFG.
    · In 2008, he warned me about some copyright infringement — but he did not specify his “infringed upon” material.
    · In 2014, Norm Victim succeeding in taking down my entire site. He claimed one of my Web pages published his emails, thusly violating his copyright.

    The issue was widely debated in Zengrifter’s forum. Zengrifter himself was the target of furious Norman Wattenberger copyright complaints and takedown notices.

    I didn’t take N0rm to court because he didn’t file a court complaint. Of course, a federal court would disbar a lawyer who would attempt to knowingly file a complaint on false grounds.

    I put my site back online in a week or so (March 2014). We all, at Zengrifter’s, on Facebook, etc. thought Norman Wattenberger was finally “cured”. NOT! I can see now he continued his insane act. He can’t live without it due to his chronic Narcissism.

    I wrote extensively about this paranoid cuckooyak on my site, on a dedicated page:

    http://saliu.com/gambling-fights.html
    “Gambling Formula, Randomness, Norman Wattenberger, Abuse of Laws, Narcissism of Bogus Complaints”

    Norman Wattenberger knowingly commits perjury when claiming copyright infringement for materials he never published! Unfortunately, many webmasters do not check the validity of copyright infringement and simply succumb to the fiery requests of deranged individual.

    As for his "emails and privacy issue": I never asked him to email to me and we never signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). In fact, Norman Wattenberger's emails qualify as harassing, therefore unlawful.

    Norman Wattenberger/qfit should be the target of serious criminal complaints filed with the FBI, Attorney General of the State of New York (where he resides, in the United Nations Plaza), local Attorneys General of the victimized forums/publishers/authors. Civil lawsuits against Norman Wattenberger/qfit would result in financial losses for the plaintiffs as our abnormal Norm would have no sufficient assets to pay for damages and attorney's fees. As he normally does, he would even resort to the ultimate threat: "You are killing me... and I'll hold you responsible!" Nonetheless, enough is enough: This cyber cancer must be stopped.


    Ion Saliu,
    A Norman’s Victim At-Large
     
  13. zengrifter

    zengrifter Member Lineage to Founders

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    OMG!! I knew it! He is simply awful!
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  14. Parpaluck

    Parpaluck New Member

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    How I got into this… again. Miss Google keeps track of the search query norman wattenberger and referrers to my site. Usually, it ranks under 300, so I don’t notice it. When there is unusual activity on the query, norman wattenberger jumps in the top 100 clicks to my site. My website appears now at #2 in Google searches.

    Doing a norman wattenberger search, I noticed a new entry on the first results page:

    (10) Blackjack - Current feud with Qfit (Norman Wattenberger ...
    https://www.gamblingforums.com › Betting › Blackjack Forum
    1. Feb 13, 2017 - 20 posts - ‎6 authors
    When you really stop and look at all that merchandising, you realize Norm Wattenberger (Qfit) isn't this great guy trying to give back to the ...


    I checked it out. I wasn’t shocked to learn that the Cyber Narcissist cannot live without these disrupting actions of his. In fact, I knew he kept quiet with me — but still bothering, even harassing, Web host, Facebook, Twitter, etc. He still wants my site down and out — and then some.

    Actually, methinks N0rm will be quiet only in the case of “the final solution”. He is satisfied only when all his adversaries are dead. Just out of business is not enough: His adversaries can find other venues to express their true thoughts about the Cyber Narcissist. After he succeeded in taking my site down in 2014, he kept bombarding me with emails furiously asking me to cease and desist. It was obvious that actually he wanted me to cease to exist! He was mad that I was still posting at Zengrifter’s, on Facebook, Twitter!

    That’s way I made this statement — and I want to reinforce it —

    · Norman Wattenberger/qfit should be the target of serious criminal complaints filed with the FBI, Attorney General of the State of New York (where he resides, in the United Nations Plaza), local Attorneys General of the victimized forums/publishers/authors. Civil lawsuits against Norman Wattenberger/qfit would result in financial losses for the plaintiffs as our abnormal Norm would have no sufficient assets to pay for damages and attorney's fees.​


    He might be able to scare some overly caring persons, when he would even resort to his ultimate threat/blackmail: "You are destroying my life... and I'll hold you responsible!" That’s how he complained in Google search forums and asked Google to remove all negative search results on his name! Nonetheless, enough is enough: This cyber cancer must be stopped. No matter what you do, this cancer won’t stop his harassment for as long as he lives…

    He just made another threat in his paid-membership forums: escalation.

    “From top to bottom, it is the best to worst way of dealing with a post that you don't like. It is likely modeled on Friedrich Glasl's model of conflict escalation.
    Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement_svg.jpg”


    https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/showthread.php?39249-Graham-s-hierarchy-of-disagreement

    Ridiculously, Miss Google only shows images of Ion Saliu and Jimmy Page (!) on the norman wattenberger search query! WEIRD!
     
  15. Parpaluck

    Parpaluck New Member

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    Where is Tony King, a.k.a. Katz in your forums, Tony Baloney here? He was also a star in the Norman Wattenberger horror movie. He disappeared on Facebook and Friends are worried about him.

    Do you know his whereabouts? Worry is normal, given his adversary we talkin abou’ here…

    Tony King stopped all activities (in Cyber World, anyway) on June 3, 2017. Usually, he was a daily poster somewhere…
     
  16. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Anyone who may not be into blackjack and may not have been familiar with Qfit/Norm Wattenberger prior to this thread and/or my posting here, is probably thinking that there are two sides to every story, and only one is being presented here.

    But as time goes on and more and more people come forward, you read the same exact M.O. over and over and over again. Wattenberger attempting to shut people down, when he doesn't like their opinions. And almost each and every one of these stories involves Wattenberger filing complaints or threats of legal action and using whatever influence he many have with other site owners. The man is an internet bully! No two ways about it.

    When he participates on a forum, he will present himself as this kind, quirky, type 'fellow'.... a bit eccentric. He says all the right things. "Freedom of speech", "a forum where players can share ideas and experiences" etc. He will tell you everything he has done for decades has been about helping the blackjack community (although you will note his products and merchandise aren't free...;)). And finally he will present himself as the "victim" in all these feuds....a handle he chose for this very site.

    He is not the victim. And he is not this kind, good hearted guy, who's only interest is helping the blackjack community. He is a manipulative internet bully, who will do and say anything to silence those that he doesn't agree with or have expressed a negative opinion of him, his site or his products, including but not limited to threats of lawsuits and filing all kinds of complaints with whomever he can think of to file complaints with.

    When two people are involved in a feud or fight or war of words or whatever you want to call these type of internet feuds, you have to consider that there are two sides to every story. But when dozens (and it's probably more like hundreds over the decades) of people involved in these "feuds" with Wattenberger, all tell the same story, of threats of legal action and complaints, and manipulating other site owners/administrators is there really any doubt? I mean really...is everyone out to get Qfit and he is the victim, or is he the problem? It's not that hard to figure out. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Parpaluck

    Parpaluck New Member

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    Congratulations! This forum jumped to position #3 in Google search on the historic query norman wattenberger.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=norman wattenberger

    Here is a screenshot on the famed search as it appeared on February 19, 2018:

    http://saliu.com/ScreenImgs/NormW/norman-google-2018.gif
    [​IMG]

    No doubt, Norman “Bates” is fuming again. Who knows how many takedown complaints he filed with the webhost of this very site?! I wasn’t very surprised when I wasn’t able to access this forum a few days ago. The error message informed me that the URL didn’t exist!

    As you can see, my Web page dedicated to the heated gossip dropped to position #5 (from the 2017 silver medal position, #2)!

    Unfortunately, Miss Google confuses her patrons when it comes to images of norman wattenberger. Miss Google shows Ion “Parpaluck” Saliu as the representative face of Norman Wattenberger!!! Sheesh! That offends me, Miss Google!

    http://saliu.com/ScreenImgs/NormW/normaw-image.gif
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Gambling After Dark

    Gambling After Dark New Member

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    Anyone in this post who'd like to help with a video I'd be happy to create outting all of Norm's bullshit, can email me at [email protected].........everyone is urged to do it from anonymous email to keep your privacy. for those interested in seeing my work can be found on my uoutube channel gambling after dark dustin mccockoff. The pen is mightier then the sword and If Norm's bullshit needs to stop, then i'd love to help.

    and Norm, if youre reading this, GFY, there isnt a damn thing you can do to stop me. Just ask morgenstern, innovator, betonline etc, etc. you have my email, so start sending me those cease and desist letters now, so I can reply back the same GFY. Good luck trying to get my future video of you taken down on youtube. Their legal team wont give a shit what you try to threaten them or me with
     
  19. Tater

    Tater New Member

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    Hey Exoter, hope all is well: Hello Kj: Parpaluck, you have some interesting perspective.
     
  20. Gambling After Dark

    Gambling After Dark New Member

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    Hey Exoter, you still supplying mike morgenstern people's private information so he can threaten to murder them and their entire families? You still telling your lies just like Norm does? come on Exoter, tell these people some more lies so I can make you look like that fat fool you are. You crossed the line and that's why youre hiding, but you can and will be caught. Like I said months ago, you better lawyer up. Your Ego and waist size are identical (fatter then a mofo).
     

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