Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

this comes from someone that spent 6 months talking nothing but about himself

and now he is the arbiter of when its time to move on

in my mind its never time to turn your back on a neighbor and say I am moving on from commenting on injustice.

 

Most if not all comments about WoV, its members and its mods, are limited to this subsection of GF: The Lounge.

It is designed for off topic discussions such as this: nothing wrong with posting about it.

Yes, most comments are negative.

Yes, many comments can be considered hurtful to the intended target.

And yes, again, there seems to be no end to the negativity: it just won't go away.

One might want to ask themself: why won't these guys just shut the fuck up?

Good question, and I'll hazard a guess.

First, they're pissed off at what they consider arbitrary treatment, both of themselves and others.

Second, they've discovered a sense of comraderie here; sort of like the near-intoxication experienced by members of a witches coven, or a SEAL team on a kill op.

Finally, they enjoy it, and derive satisfaction, both in venting and reading the response.

They came, they were nuked, now they flame.

Wicked world.

 

I know and appreciate that you are very proud of this "uncensored" status. But in my opinion, this very principal, is also the very thing that is holding this site back from substantial growth. I would bet many members that visit, are very turned off by the name-calling and personal attacks and don't stick around too long. Some likely don't even get to the point or registering and participating.

While I appreciate the principal of more freedom associated with "uncensored", I don't think this principal should be blindly applied. Doing so allows for people who only want to be disruptive, abusive and combative to thrive and is completely counter productive to what I believe is your objective of growth (hopefully quality growth).

While it would be a judgment call, if you really want to grow and be taken seriously as a gambling/AP type site, you need to weed out those who's agenda is in conflict with yours (those that only want to attack and be abusive). And while it would be a judgment call, you might want to err on the side of caution, but you must at least begin that process or this site will not evolve or grow to more than it currently is a home for the dis-enfrachised to attack and be abusive.

 

I'm glad to hear it, I think forum activity is good for gamblers, in general, as well as gambling discussion regardless of where it happens.

As you already know, I have respect for you and the way you handled my situation, so I want to make it clear my intent is not to trash your Forums. When I invited Rona to join WoV, I suggested that she should post at both places and did nothing to disparage here. At that point, a couple of your Members felt it necessary to disparage WoV as though this thread hasn't already made clear what their opinions are. They then wanted to highlight that not all of the Registered WoV Membership is actually active (as if they are at any Forum) and wanted to discuss, 'Real numbers.' I decided to give them, 'Real Numbers,' right back.

Aside from this thread, I think you guys are a good Forum and you have a good bit of gambling knowledge and experience here. I think that this Forum also has a good bit of potential that it has not yet met, but probably will, and that a few people could even help you do that if they would focus their efforts elsewhere. I wish you guys good luck. I think competition is good for everyone, and I also think there is room for everyone in the Forum market.

As much as I would like to debate the merits of Forum Management Philosophy with you, it would require a separate thread and several cumulative hours of our time. Generally speaking, I think we know the benefits and costs of uncensored v. heavy moderation, and as such, we would probably find mostly agreement in such a discussion while differing on only a few minor points.

You do you, and we'll do us, is what I'm saying. I like the competition, and I like the different Philosophies, gives people options.

Well, I certainly hope that they do, and again wish you luck over here. I've even contributed to a few of your other threads despite being almost directly goaded into reappearing here this most recent time.

 

I don't care that you have issues with WOV, it certainly isn't perfect. But, cut the fake neighbor caring BS. You know dam well you don't give a rats-ass about how others are treated at WOV or here, you only use that as a cover for your obsession with WOV.

There is not one person(including yourself) here or there that really believes you care about any injustice at WOV. If you really did you would talk about realistic ways to help solve the problems. Talking trash and calling people out especially about their personal lives doesn't really doesn't help.

You think everyone that got banned would be pro LarryS
Have you ever wondered why many of the other people who were kicked off of WOV have a problem with you?

The reason why you use trash names for people is bullshit as well. You just like to use derogatory names because you like to disparage people. Face it Larry, you get off on tearing people and things down. It makes you feel good, important or some shit. You cant really handle the fact that you got banned. You pretend you don't care but you do, it has all but taken up all your spare time.

 

Do some research on Rona, its probably someone most members wouldn't even want on WOV. She/he has been pegged as a sock-puppet. Either way he/she is just another roulette scammer IMO.

 

I have evidence she/he has been PEGGED as a sock-puppet by other members. Please ask them to provide evidence.

 

I don't think that I'm going to look into it too much, but rather, if she does join her actions at WoV will result in how she is treated at WoV and whether she is even allowed to continue to post at WoV. Anyone who has not been banned from WoV is welcome and encouraged to join and will be weighed based on what they do there.

 

I imagine that I will, unless the discourse here substantially annoys me again.

 

Anyone that hasn't been banned will be encouraged? How about theses 4 black kids that kidnapped that poor white kid?

 

I know what you're saying, but the tenor of the post implies that posters who come to WoV from GF will be deemed suspicious until proven otherwise, unlike people without such prior history.

Sort of like coming on board with the Scartlet Letter "A" on one's bosom.

 

I don't want you to think I'm suggesting how you should run your Forum, but this is exactly the sort of problem I'm talking about that I think keeps you from meeting your potential as a Forum. I think that either yourself or a different Moderator should be responsible for reading all of the posts so that the Insults could be moved to the appropriate thread even if the Forum is going to take no further action against those who make the insults. It is very difficult to have a self-policing community, especially in the early stages when a non insubstantial percentage of your membership seems content to hurl insults back and forth, or alternatively, to use insults in a post that would otherwise be valid discussion.

I'm not volunteering to do that, just for the record, and would decline, if asked. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression.

Anyway, it's important when trying to build to have a gambling Forum that looks like a gambling Forum and not a gambling Forum that looks like a particularly nasty Youtube comments section. I don't see any path towards this Forum meeting its full potential because that is going to, and probably has, put off would-be Members.

If you can't rely on self-policing, then you have to police yourself. It sucks, I'm not going to lie to you. It would be nice to be completely uncensored AND have the sort of Forum appearance that would lead to all possible people (unique viewers) joining and becoming active, but that doesn't happen, and good discussions do not happen as often as they should. That, as you know, is why Moderation exists in the first place.

Your Insults Graveyard sounds like something we had called, 'The Rant House,' when I was a Moderator at Ilovephilosophy.com. It's almost a happy medium. People could say whatever they wanted in there, but a Member would have to be logged in to see it, not viewable unless logged in, that's where this thread would be if this thread existed over there.

 

Well...maybe not necessarily encouraged...

 

Not at all, for one thing she could come with a different screen name and how would we even know it was her? Even then, I can say that I would Administrate her posts fully in accordance with WoV Rules as though she were anyone else, I would not Moderate her posts any more strictly than the standard I would apply to anyone else of her tenure and value to the Forum...which, as you know, is something I do consider, subjective though it may be.

 

"We are able to detect sock puppets much better than the vast majority of forum communities"

Does that include all forum communities including the ones where people talk about their cats and what kind of toilet paper they used?

Never underestimate what lengths system players will go to in order to faultsly proof their non working system works. Its like a sickness. Especially the ones who are trying to sell, hawk, con and scam. Do doubt they can afford a few burner phones with Wifi.

 

Yes, the judgment call is a things is tricky. But we are all (you included) smart enough to damn well see that some folks here only intent is to argue and fight and not contribute positively in any way, which is detrimental to your site and goals. You contrast that with a guy like Mickey, who while he may at times (fueled by a little firewater) cross the line while speaking his mind. You contrast that by looking at Mickey's total contributions, knowledge and intent. Mickey's positive contributions, knowledge and value by far (not even close) outweigh his negatives, which is basically that he sometimes PUI's (posts under the influence...lol).

I know the 'Mickey situation' is challenging. It is easiest to have rules and be inflexible. But any site that does that with Mickey is being foolish IMO. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one. But I think Mike and WoV, lost out by not exploring every possible way to find a solution to this unique situation. I just don't feel like Mike and WoV explored and exhausted every possibility.

And no, I am not going to spend all my time monitoring and reporting violations. That is not why I visit the site. Frankly that is your job. You chose to run a website. I chose to play blackjack for a living. lol