Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Your hypocrisy is laughable. This is your very first post on this site:

You did not come here with an open mind to debate. You came here to attack with this opening salvo. Yet we did not engage you until you made the incredibly poor decision to attack us with lies 3 days ago when we had never engaged you before and then double-down on those attacks when we exposed you for lying about us.

Show everyone right now where we boast we have a "great wealth of information". We won't let this go until you post where we boast "great wealth of information" or you admit you just made that up. Yet another lie coming from you about us. Back it up.

Only if you are a masochist.

Yes, because unlike you and your broken bandwagon, we back up what we say. Not only did you just lie about us having boasted about a "great wealth of information", you did something far more damaging than that. You lied about us being scammers:

Let's dissect this lie and attack.

You set the stage with "speaking of scams" before invoking our giveaway.

TRANSLATION: Our giveaway is a scam, making us scammers for running it.


You then state "how many people have gotten "lucky" and gotten the $1500 or whatever it is from making a post?" with quotes around "lucky".

TRANSLATION: No one has gotten lucky because this giveaway is a scam and no one is getting paid.


You end with a wink emoticon.

TRANSLATION: GOTCHA!


Do you think we are stupid? Do you think just because you used colorful words to call us "scammers" without actually literally saying "you are scammers", that we're just going to let that lie slide by? As we've already shown you and others, attempt to discredit us with lies, and you will hear from us. Involve us and we will duly comply.

You don't seem to get it. We are outsiders to the gambling industry, so from our point of view, credible members are those who have not lied to us or about us on this site. In other words, those who have shown themselves to be honest. Your gambling chops will be judged by others, not by us. But credibility is not just about ones accomplishments, but also about the weight of their words. Our exercise in discrediting you here serves the purpose of removing the weight of your words posted on this site. Naturally, that will impact anything you say here, even if you are an expert in it, since any other member will be able to point to your lies in this thread, how we exposed those lies, and how you doubled-down without admitting you were wrong, when engaging with you regarding any topic. Someone doesn't need to be an expert at something in order to be credible. They just have to display a pattern of honesty. You have not shown that honesty with us. In fact, you doubled-down on your attacks when we exposed your lies. If folks can't believe what you say about us, what can they believe coming from you? That's why it's so important to be honest and straightforward in online communities because the only thing we are judged by is the words that we post and that appear on everyone's screens.

Here's the problem with credibility. It's all-encompassing. If you are an expert at Y, but are exposed as a liar about X, it doesn't just damage your credibility regarding X, it also damages your credibility regarding Y because it shows you are dishonest which makes others naturally wonder what else you are lying about. That diminishes the power of all your words. So you may think it's OK for a member of a gambling forum with gambling experience to lie about other matters, and that that won't affect their gambling credibility, but you would be mistaken. Take the scandal involving Republican Senator Larry Craig. He got busted for lewd conduct in a men's restroom. According to you, that should not impact his credibility as a politician because one has nothing to do with the other. Yet the incident ended his political career.

So KewlJ in your view is an "outcast"? Again, you damage your own credibility by bringing down credible members of the gambling community. KewlJ is a perfect example of the demand for and potential of this site. He was silenced and banned under controversial circumstances, and our uncensored community gave him a platform to openly discuss his situation. Is that all KewlJ did, or did he also make gambling-related posts? In fact, he's created some of the most interesting posts in our Blackjack Forum. Mickey Crimm is another example. Very knowledgeable in his gambling field, but banned at multiple forums. Not only has he provided a wealth of knowledge about Slots in our Slots Forum, he has also provided a journal of his exploits in our AP Slots Forum here. You can refuse to accept there is a demand for this type of gambling forum, and we'll continue to prove you wrong and back it up.

As mentioned before, that's misleading because this thread just so happens to be the defacto "Off-topic Lounge" for members who happen to know each other from WOV to discuss just about anything from politics to gambling. We touched upon this recently here. For example, we recently extracted from this thread a 193-post discussion about whether there is such a thing as a "professional" gambler which has absolutely nothing to do with WOV and moved it to it's own thread here. Buried inside this "WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying" thread is also a multi-page discussion between two Slots Advantage Players about Advantage Plays in specific machines (for example, see this post). That discussion also has absolutely nothing to do with WOV, and is fully gambling-related, yet also occurred in this thread. Here's yet another example. There are countless more gems hidden within the thousands of pages of this thread, but extracting relevant off-topic discussions and moving them to their own relevant threads is incredibly time-consuming as they are intermixed with other discussions in multiple pages, giving the impression that there is more drama here than there really is. That's not to say there isn't drama, but we've heard about plenty of drama happening at other popular gambling forums, so that seems to come with the territory and certainly isn't unique to our site.

Over 28,000 posts from over 1,500 members in 2 years. That is literally the definition of growth since we started with 0 posts from 0 members. Prefer to look at more recent traffic? How about 33% growth in just the last 5 months:


We will continue to discredit you with facts.

So much for not liking those that talk down to others. Just more hypocrisy from your part. You make the mistake of thinking that we are an AP-only Gambling community. You are wrong. Proof: Check the second word in our slogan. What is it? "Comprehensive". That's right, we cater to anything and everything gambling-related. So that includes roulette systems discussed by Turbogenius and Gizmotron outside of the AP Roulette Forum. For someone that doesn't like debating with folks who talk down to others, you certainly have a habit of putting others down. But that's just your hypocrisy.

Nice back track after you realized who you were calling a "crock of shit". We didn't post their introductions on our forum. They created them all on their own. We understand it may pain you that outsiders to the gambling industry were not only able to start a growing gambling forum, but have it founded by names much bigger than yours, without you getting Founding Member status, and then seeing those same outsiders publicly discredit you using your own words.

Correcting lies about a business doesn't make the owners insecure. It proves they have something of value worth defending. We never claimed we were a "super gambling forum" (that's just more lies from you) and 28,000 posts from 1,500 members can hardly be called a "total bust". That's just you doing what you do best here: lying.

Over 160 posts in just 9 months suggests otherwise.

So now that you got busted and were exposed, you go with the faux plausible deniability of "it was made in jest". Except it wasn't. You don't know us and we don't know you. No one jests with those they don't know about something as serious as an accusation of running a scam. We don't but your claim that you had read the rules and knew the conditions because with that context, your "jest" makes absolutely no sense. That would be like you saying: "Speaking of scams, although I know that the criteria for the $5,000 giveaway hasn't been met yet, how many people have gotten "lucky" and gotten the $1500 or whatever it is from making a post? " How is that funny? How does that even make sense? It isn't because it doesn't because you clearly had not read the conditions and now are just trying to save face by backtracking after we exposed you for posting a malicious lie about us just to "fit in" with the broken bandwagon.

What you call a "long tirade" we call "backing up our undressing, dissecting, and discrediting of a liar". See, it takes more words to actually back up what one says. Telling a lie takes few words. Proving a liar is a liar requires more words.

Of course you will believe that because you don't like the fact that we exposed you for the liar that you are after you lied about us, so instead of admitting you were wrong, you doubled-down like the charlatan that you are. Our credibility in running forums speaks for itself. In just 2 years, and as complete outsiders to the gambling industry, not only did we get some of the best gambling minds to join us as Founding Members, we also grew our site to over 28,000 posts and 1,500 members. Furthermore, google "gambling forums" and check what the largest search engine in the world returns as the most relevant result. So once again you couldn't back up your words (in this case, about us not having credibility to be running a gambling forum), and yet once again we were able to back up our words. We have no issue with our own credibility because we know we've been backing up what we say from the start and we don't hide behind "it was in just", winky faces, and plausible deniability. We mean what we say, we say what we mean, and -- most importantly -- we always back it up.

Your political hypocrisy aside, you aren't "just" against "some" of the things here at GamblingForums.com, you seem to be against everything we do and have the audacity to criticize us for having a lot of drama which you yourself admit enjoying and participating in. That is the definition of hypocrisy and no amount of backtracking is going to change that.

More lies. You specifically invoked ZG when you used his site as a "low standard" to say we have even less credibility than his site. That was an insult towards him as much as it was an insult towards us. You keep trying to backtrack your words, but they are plain for everyone to see (again, thanks to our no-edit rules).

Yet Mickey Crimm, KewlJ, and others you can't think of do post here, but you make it seem like they don't. Again, we are comprehensive, and all are welcomed here, even liars such as you.

Keep lying about us, and we'll keep exposing you, and you'll be tarnishing the credibility of your words for all to see, including those you refer to as "real aps".

Horrible analogy. We never claimed we were credible in the gambling field, only in running forum communities. A pilot doesn't need to know about hydraulic systems or the history of their destination in order to fly a plane. And if they get a drunken Balinese tour guide as one of their passengers, and that passengers gets up in the middle of the flight to Bali and yells "the pilot is going to crash the plane into a building!", the pilot would do well to subdue and discredit that tour guide regardless of how much he knows about their destination. But to use your own knitting & crocheting analogy, here's a better one: you start a forum on knitting & crocheting knowing nothing about either. Someone claiming they are a professional in the knitting & crocheting field joins your forum and out of the blue tells everyone you are selling fake yarn on your site. You prove to them and everyone else that they are wrong. Instead of admitting they were wrong, they do Olympic-sized mental gymnastics to backtrack, change the meaning of their words, claim it was in jest, and deny every lie they said to save face while still doubling down on their attacks against you, someone who just created a knitting & crocheting forum for anyone interested in the subject matter to enjoy. It doesn't matter whether that liar is a "professional" knitter or not, their words lost meaning and credibility the moment you exposed them for lying and they doubled-down and failed to admit they were wrong. Since they need words to engage with other "real advantage knitters", the loss of credibility of their words impacts how they are perceived by the community as a whole since it is now known they will lie and double-down instead of admit when they are wrong. After all, no one likes an obstinate and dishonest knitter because the day they make a mistake and leave a small hole when knitting your child a new sweater, they will try to convince you it's perfect only for it to last 2 weeks before ripping, and then your child will hate you forever.

 

As we mentioned before, if an account is not active, we don't bother to determine whether it's a potential sock puppet because an inactive account can't do any damage. We aren't going to investigate every account that signs up, only those that are suspicion. MrsWolf was upfront about who she was in her only post here (so she wasn't trying to hide anything), and she only made 1 post here. That's not going to get her account looked into.

But admitting you sell something isn't the same thing as selling it. This is the post you are referring to, and here's the part of that post you pasted:

He doesn't even mention where his "school" is and where to sign up for it and it was in response to another member attacking him. If we were interested in joining the "school" he mentioned in that post, we wouldn't even know where to go. What are we supposed to do, ban him for mentioning he has a "school" without naming it or linking to it? That would be ridiculous. That isn't the post of someone selling something.

No, you won't have proof because there isn't any because no one is getting scammed here. You just need to accept that. If people were getting scammed here, it would be obvious.

You are making so many convenient assumptions that it's difficult to take this seriously. There are countless pages on the internet where folks describe in detail how they've been scammed. In fact, there are entire websites dedicated to that. Furthermore, if someone is dumb enough to get scammed and lose money without even realizing it, then they surely aren't smart enough to be able to figure out where gizmotron's "school" is if he doesn't even mention where it is. So you can't have it both ways.

You still haven't mentioned how someone could easily scam another member here since our rules prohibit selling among other things. Scamming requires some form of selling, and that is simply not allowed here, and that's why you can't find actual examples of it, let alone scamming.

We don't care that scammers have infiltrated and successfully scammed others in other forums because we don't control the rules of those forums. We do control the rules here, and we designed them to minimize scamming, and that's why we know it's incredibly difficult for someone to scam another member here.

We appreciate that as we don't want a community where everyone points fingers and labels each other without any evidence.